The default is righ here.

Perry, nobody took us so close to Venezuela than Macri.

You are correct that Macri has been the catalyst for this disaster but this does not mean I support radical socialist governments . There are members in this forum who have praised Venezuela and this is completely wrong and evil . Argentina should model itself on Chile or Peru where financial responsibility and accountability has created stable societies. Inflation is the worse taxation on a people and this must be contained as to create a stable confident society.
 
I think Macri made a lot of mistakes. I also think that as the system is set up - no one will be able to shepherd Argentina into financial responsibility and stability. The unions are too strong, the ingrained expectation that the gov't should be responsible for all instead of having personal accountability, the corruption in the gov't, etc, etc, - you'd have to address all things simultaneously and I don't see that happening anytime..ever.
 
You have a habit of defending the indefendible using soundbites to silence intelligent conversation . The current government has been the biggest disaster to hit Argentina since its founding as a republic . Now we are left with a terrible future as people will opt for radical socialism that also is not a answer to Argentinas problems .

Mauricio Macri had a historic opportunity to turn Argentina around . Instead he used the trust of his people to speculate with their future and rack up the largest debt ever . Capitalism is the correct path where people and business are encouraged . Savage capitalism which was the model of the last years has decimated most small businesses and converted the majority of Argentinas citizens into working poor .

I am not happy for a return to the past and certainly do not support the Venezuela model . For those members who gleefully post those venezuela videos put your money where your mouth is and move there . I desire for Argentina a capitalist future that encourages and respect its citizens . There are many fine examples in the world from Finland . Norway. Canada , and Australia . These countries have similar populations to Argentina and have prospered . Of all these countries once Argentina had the brightest future as rightfully so it is the richest of all ot them in natural resources . Unfortunately corruption has been ingrained in the system here and this has been the demise of the country in the last 50 years

I agree with a lot of that. Though please stop calling this batch of peronists/k's "radical socialists". They are quite obviously a faux left wing cleptocratic mafiosi populist grouping.

Let's never forget that the only ideological content peronism has is the thirst for raw power. That's why you've had people who are supposedly from both the left, and the right, calling themselves 'peronists' for decades. Person's idol was Musolini, people forget that too.

Social democratic left wing governments, and related progressive social policies, have done very well in several Nordic, European, and other countries, sweeden, etc. The K's and their ilk are not socialists, not social democrats, and not radical socialists either.

The K's just printed money, destroyed the peso value, had a massive public sector and cliente class who are intentionally kept uneducated and fed the same old populist bread and circus. Oh, and they also 'donated' a lot of funds to convents, lest we forget. The corruption was truly epic...

You are spot on that the neo liberal M thieves have destroyed the economy too though, siphoned off a lot through corruption, used the imf loans to artificially manipulate the currency value etc. As opposed to spending on core education, vocational training, core public service infrastructure, small business, and transformative large scale infrastructure and modernisation projects. All they provided where a few token 'show pieces'. It's a squandered opportunity, but what else would the neo-liberals do, they always end up richer as they are fans of redistributing wealth to themselves, from the poor.

Neither 'side' here in Argentina have ever done anything to deal with the total lack of separation of powers, and heavy politicization of both the Judicial branch, and the higher education system in Argentina. Something they all benefit from and which only further butresses the regressive political modalities.

Both 'sides' are rotten to the core.

And soon we will probably have a global recession on our hands too.

If only the greedy political classes would stop acting like spoilt children , Argentina really could be so much better for it's demos with some better stewardship. I haven't seen much around though, unfortunately.
 
I think Macri made a lot of mistakes. I also think that as the system is set up - no one will be able to shepherd Argentina into financial responsibility and stability. The unions are too strong, the ingrained expectation that the gov't should be responsible for all instead of having personal accountability, the corruption in the gov't, etc, etc, - you'd have to address all things simultaneously and I don't see that happening anytime..ever.
I agree with everything you said; I'm still holding out hope, though, that one govt, one day, will make the kinds of structural changes the country needs.
You have a habit of defending the indefendible using soundbites to silence intelligent conversation . The current government has been the biggest disaster to hit Argentina since its founding as a republic . Now we are left with a terrible future as people will opt for radical socialism that also is not a answer to Argentinas problems .

Mauricio Macri had a historic opportunity to turn Argentina around . Instead he used the trust of his people to speculate with their future and rack up the largest debt ever . Capitalism is the correct path where people and business are encouraged . Savage capitalism which was the model of the last years has decimated most small businesses and converted the majority of Argentinas citizens into working poor .

I am not happy for a return to the past and certainly do not support the Venezuela model . For those members who gleefully post those venezuela videos put your money where your mouth is and move there . I desire for Argentina a capitalist future that encourages and respect its citizens . There are many fine examples in the world from Finland . Norway. Canada , and Australia . These countries have similar populations to Argentina and have prospered . Of all these countries once Argentina had the brightest future as rightfully so it is the richest of all ot them in natural resources . Unfortunately corruption has been ingrained in the system here and this has been the demise of the country in the last 50 years
You seem to think that unless you go into great length about what you believe every time you post, even though you've already made that clear many times before, you are using "sound bites" to try to "silence intelligent conversation." Intelligent conversation is not always a function of its length. But just to be clear, I'll repeat what I've already said on this forum in different threads.

I have no great love for Macri, but I have even less love for FF. Part of that is a moral question: I don't like and would never vote for a known thief. Because I think Trump is a racist (or least says racists things, and there's only a fine line between those two for me), I would never vote for him, regardless of how well the economy is going or other positive things he might be doing. Again, it's like with Cristina, it's a moral issue.

Let's just say for argument sake that this moral issue wasn't present in the presidential race here. I still wouldn't vote for FF. Kirchner started with a budget surplus because of the megadeavluation and because of the default. He was given such a gift in the many years of record prices for soy and grains, and yet the poverty level never went below 26% and after 12 years of kirchnerismo, Cristina left the country with low reserves, high inflation, budget deficits and so many other problems that someone was going to have to solve, like the cepo, all the subsidized utilities and transportation, energy problems, etc. And all the problems Cristina left for Macri, did not have their origins in just her govts, but started under Kirchner.

I realize that all the problems Cristina left have just gotten worse under Macri. No doubt about that. I at least see Macri trying to make some of the structural changes that Citygirl mentioned, like balancing the budget, in addition to taking on corruption and mafia within the unions and social organizations. I cannot see FF or any peronists, really, making significant structural changes, because they always seemed most concerned with giving people what they want, instead of necessarily what is best for the country, i.e., populism, so they will be able to stay in power.

I don't know that Macri's plan will work long turn (doesn't look like it at this point), but I don't see FF really doing anything other than just temporarily stopping the bleeding. We all seem to forget that Cristina left the country with almost 30% poverty.
 
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We all seem to forget that Cristina left the country with almost 30% poverty.
They don't forget, they deny and then simply say... but Macri. All things you just wrote are correct, of course they are, but they will be swept aside by denial in the following posts. It's something people swayed by populism are excellent at... putting their fingers in their years and saying la la la. Because I have said this, I expect a five paragraph post explaining why I am in love with Macri.
 
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