The end of Obama's socialism

geoffbob said:
Thank you thank you. I just about deep sixed this forum because of all the extremists here.
As soon as the "stimulus" kicked in my job of 24 years went belly up. I know two people who got layed off, lounged around for a year collecting unemployment and called me AFTER it expired to ask if I know of any jobs. Note they never called me while they were still collecting. The French can go burn another 5000 more cars tonight. I do love Buenos Aires. Isn't that what this is supposed to be about?

Hey Geoffbob, welcome to the fight! :):)

There may not be a lot, but there are a few of us fending off (and laughing or weeping) at the lefties...and there are some crazy ones here.

Still, there are enough sane centrists and even a couple intelligent lefties that make the reading worth it. I'm guessing there are a lot more of you and I, they just need to find their voice...we've got their backs.
 
People of the World! Lets stop spreading "Super Grandioso BS" about "socialist Obama" and his "vicious commie agenda" crap. How many times it needs to be explained to ppl that in socialism FEDS are tax-ate and provide all the CARE for their citizens OUT of the taxes. Citizens are not forced to BUY anything in addition to be served medically (in this matter).

In the US those Obamanoids are rolling us into mandatory purchase of "re-vamped" HC, then pay for the same doctors just as much as we paying now.

Where does anyone could see slightest fraction of a socialism???
 
pikto99 said:
People of the World! Lets stop spreading "Super Grandioso BS" about "socialist Obama" and his "vicious commie agenda" crap. How many times it needs to be explained to ppl that in socialism FEDS are tax-ate and provide all the CARE for their citizens OUT of the taxes. Citizens are not forced to BUY anything in addition to be served medically (in this matter).

In the US those Obamanoids are rolling us into mandatory purchase of "re-vamped" HC, then pay for the same doctors just as much as we paying now.

Where does anyone could see slightest fraction of a socialism???

What all the extremists just can't seem to grasp is that by and large the USA is still a country where honorable people can have an honest difference of opinion and remain friends. There are legitimate points to be raised by all sides on almost any given issue. The way we try to resolve our differences is to vote. We can do this without engaging in character assassination and mocking the intelligence of our opponents. The more we stray from this hallmark of a civilized society the more we place ourselves at peril. The honorable independent voters who put Obama there in the first place have come to believe they made a mistake. Welcome to the bigs.
 
Those who say the Tea Party has no plan to arrive at a smaller government aren't listening: plans could include new tax plan, school vouchers, hiring freeze in all government offices, an income tax holiday for up to a year... and many other options too numerous to mention here.

I see no reason to let folks get by with rash, unfounded statements... parsing everything that is said in a non-progressive vein.
 
CapnRick said:
Those who say the Tea Party has no plan to arrive at a smaller government aren't listening: plans could include new tax plan, school vouchers, hiring freeze in all government offices, an income tax holiday for up to a year... and many other options too numerous to mention here.

I see no reason to let folks get by with rash, unfounded statements... parsing everything that is said in a non-progressive vein.

Au contraire: they are listening. What about the major items of government expenditure -- where the real money goes? Social security, Medicare, "defence," bank bailouts? The champions of the Tea Party movement become coy when the military-industrial complex is mentioned, the permanent war economy of the USA is questioned. This is why I think the clock can't be turned back. "The other options too numerous to mention" probably camouflage the lack of a real focus on the things that matter. The United States would have to be radically configured both internationally and domestically.
 
CapnRick said:
Yes. That is correct.

The only person I know who talks about this -- and with whom I agree a lot of the time -- is Pat Buchanan, who questions whether the US needs or can afford a global military presence and an entrenched military-industrial complex. But from the likes of clowns like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, absolutely nothing.

I appreciate the old-style conservatism that Buchanan represents (though I think the clock can't be turned back), but this is not what I see in the incoherent and hysterical Tea Party movement which has already been subverted by big money.
 
This is an excerpt from Pat's latest essay:

To cut spending to 20 percent of GDP from 24 would require annual slashes of $600 billion, eliminating a sixth of the budget.

Will Democrats go along with that magnitude of cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment benefits, earned income tax credits, infrastructure, Pell grants and welfare?

Will Republicans go along with cuts of that size for the Iraq and Afghan wars, new weapons systems, closing of bases and withdrawal of troops from Korea, Japan or Europe? To get 4 percent of GDP out of defense would require putting the Pentagon on furlough.

Bottom line: The new Republican House has the numbers and will to block new taxes and fund both wars and the rising defense budget. And the president has the veto power to block severe cuts in social programs, which his bloodied forces will demand that he do.

I don't agree with his analysis on quite a few things -- for example, there is no real Left in the USA (if there were, the country might not be in quite the quagmire it's in now as there would have been a countervailing force to a corporate-controlled state). Nor are the Democrats of today that different to Republicans in being stooges of private lobbies. But at least he does ask some painful questions -- how is the American state to reconfigure itself? Is global military adventurism affordable anymore? Who will be affected by radical changes in how the state functions and what it pays for? I have a little suspicion that quite a few of these Tea Partiers are going to lose some of their enthusiasm when they see how Social Security and Medicare changes affect them.
 
bigbadwolf said:
The champions of the Tea Party movement become coy when the military-industrial complex is mentioned, the permanent war economy of the USA is questioned.

Here's there point! THIS is where the really silly money goes. It makes me crazy.
 
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ism-and-lost-the-midterms/?src=me&ref=general
I have to chuckle and scratch my head in bewilderment when I read comments from people here and elsewhere lambasting Obama for being a socialist, a Keynesian (and a Kenyan), a tool of Wall St paid to look somber and utter vacuous platitudes, a warmonger, a weak-kneed appeaser of terrorists, a tool of AIPAC and the Jews, a tool of CAIR and Muslims, a waterboy for the rich, a tax and spend liberal, Malcolm X's love child.
The American political landscape is as bizarre as I can recall since the end of WWII. The average IQ seems to be on a serious downward slope dropping about as fast as the US dollar which, if continues to decline, might entice me to move back to NYC, one of the few places in the states I could probably tolerate.
 
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