The global business elite is infatuated with Milei

[Aron]

If Milei were smart he‘d announce that Argentina is now officially “open for business” and that 2025 will be the Year of the Entrepreneur with special incentives and startup friendly regulations.

I’m a newbie here, but don’t think announcements create anything but more talk.

Global business investment looks for things like efficiency, stability, supply chains, productive work forces, regulation/corruption risks. These look like things that Argentina has as works in progress. History of deeply government manipulated economy is hard to overcome.

There are strengths here that can help. There is a young workforce (a crisis in the developed world), a culture with little friction with most developed countries, natural resources, an educated and large middle class, useful time zones to many places.

What I’m not understanding with Milei are two fundamental issues:
- his talk about complete change in one or two years. That isn’t how economies operate, and sounds like wishful thinking for an economist to suggest
- the large population that is lower middle class and below living on the edge. Even discounting the human suffering any changes will make, I don’t see a plan that can predict social and political stability. Creating a crisis likely will lead to both local and international disinvestment from Argentina - the opposite from his goal outcome.

That said, I haven’t seen any better strategies from other politicians here

 

[gringoexpress]

These kinds of responses are what drives "othering" and xenophobia and pushes unhelpful narratives about those trying to make a living in the world. If you took the time to read up or even speak with those who share spaces with you then you would find the reasons these Senegalese migrants do what they do.

Many of these men migrate from Senegal and sell goods (often leather or clothing related items) as a form of rite of passage within their cultural groups and because of their religion (Sufi Isalm), they belong to brotherhoods who help and assist each other in their mercantile pursuits. What you will find is that often money is either pooled or loaned and they buy in bulk as a group and divvy those goods up and sell to the public but most of all they will support each other in their brotherhood. If you happen to see a "bunch" in one location then you might not see others who may be more successful who help those men you happen to pass by. Also, unless you spend all your time auditing their sales then you will undoubted miss when they do make sales.

Another point is that these men are often not permanent migrants and make a small amount of money to take home to Senegal and build their lives with their families. There are those who try to illegally enter the US and Europe for a better life but those are different to the guys you see selling their wares here.

These people embody the idea of entrepreneurship and we should be encouraging the development of their small businesses. I am sure you will find that these kind of migrants will have far more competitively priced goods than what @Lanick sees on Mercadolibre earlier in this thread. I hope Milei makes a conducive environment for these and other small business owners in the country.

They're participating in what appears to be a money laundering operation in broad daylight. Domestically made clothing is protected by tariffs in Argentina, and I'd be shocked if there weren't tax advantages as well. The Africans sit all day pretending to work, and if AFIP comes asking, everyone around definitely noticed them selling clothing. Whose to say how much money they earn? Their business is entirely cash based. Considering the number of vendors involved, no particular clothing wholesaler stands out for being wildly profitable because they split expenses on the Africans, so nobody gets audited by AFIP for being way outside the normal revenue/profit numbers for a clothing wholesaler in the neighborhood. Organized crime is able to launder cash money into the financial system at will. Any other business, well, there's limits; a restaurant can only cook and sell so much food, and if your numbers don't add up you get audited.

.But you're very right, who knows how much money they make? As a bonus, the Senegalese are likely in an irregular migration situation, and don't speak Spanish, so they're unlikely to talk. Who the heck brought them anyhow? In Mexico, half the population of Yucatan works in abandoned shopping malls in the middle of nowhere selling hand-carved tourist trinkets to, well, nobody. Another fantastic cash based business. In Brazil, running a pawnshop is prohibited by law unless you're a state-owned bank so all the gold buying businesses are registered as cell phone accessory stores, which has the advantage that it's fairly easy to dump bags of cell phone accessories in the trash after duly placing an order with the wholesaler to avoid being audited by the Receita Federal.

They're laundering money for organized crime, and are likely being trafficked as well, further contributing to the strengthening of organized crime networks in Argentina. I sincerely hope Milei does something about it. The last thing Argentina needs is to end up a warzone like so many other countries in South America because people were complacent and allowed organized crime to gain a foothold through schemes like this.

Which religious charity do you work for, out of curiosity?

 

[gringoexpress]

If Milei were smart he‘d announce that Argentina is now officially “open for business” and that 2025 will be the Year of the Entrepreneur with special incentives and startup friendly regulations.

He could recapitalize the banks in a heartbeat by making Argentina a territorial tax country for investors who bring their company. Creating a simple investment visa, not the 3 ring shit circus that currently exists, would also be extremely helpful.

 

[sergio]

I’m a newbie here, but don’t think announcements create anything but more talk.

Global business investment looks for things like efficiency, stability, supply chains, productive work forces, regulation/corruption risks. These look like things that Argentina has as works in progress. History of deeply government manipulated economy is hard to overcome.

There are strengths here that can help. There is a young workforce (a crisis in the developed world), a culture with little friction with most developed countries, natural resources, an educated and large middle class, useful time zones to many places.

What I’m not understanding with Milei are two fundamental issues:
- his talk about complete change in one or two years. That isn’t how economies operate, and sounds like wishful thinking for an economist to suggest
- the large population that is lower middle class and below living on the edge. Even discounting the human suffering any changes will make, I don’t see a plan that can predict social and political stability. Creating a crisis likely will lead to both local and international disinvestment from Argentina - the opposite from his goal outcome.

That said, I haven’t seen any better strategies from other politicians here

What do you want him to say? That things will be better in one or two decades? He is implementing changes now. Whether he succeeds remains to be seen. As for the lower middle class.... getting to that point would be an accomplishment. Most are poor, not lower middle class.

 

[sergio]

They're participating in what appears to be a money laundering operation in broad daylight. Domestically made clothing is protected by tariffs in Argentina, and I'd be shocked if there weren't tax advantages as well. The Africans sit all day pretending to work, and if AFIP comes asking, everyone around definitely noticed them selling clothing. Whose to say how much money they earn? Their business is entirely cash based. Considering the number of vendors involved, no particular clothing wholesaler stands out for being wildly profitable because they split expenses on the Africans, so nobody gets audited by AFIP for being way outside the normal revenue/profit numbers for a clothing wholesaler in the neighborhood. Organized crime is able to launder cash money into the financial system at will. Any other business, well, there's limits; a restaurant can only cook and sell so much food, and if your numbers don't add up you get audited.

.But you're very right, who knows how much money they make? As a bonus, the Senegalese are likely in an irregular migration situation, and don't speak Spanish, so they're unlikely to talk. Who the heck brought them anyhow? In Mexico, half the population of Yucatan works in abandoned shopping malls in the middle of nowhere selling hand-carved tourist trinkets to, well, nobody. Another fantastic cash based business. In Brazil, running a pawnshop is prohibited by law unless you're a state-owned bank so all the gold buying businesses are registered as cell phone accessory stores, which has the advantage that it's fairly easy to dump bags of cell phone accessories in the trash after duly placing an order with the wholesaler to avoid being audited by the Receita Federal.

They're laundering money for organized crime, and are likely being trafficked as well, further contributing to the strengthening of organized crime networks in Argentina. I sincerely hope Milei does something about it. The last thing Argentina needs is to end up a warzone like so many other countries in South America because people were complacent and allowed organized crime to gain a foothold through schemes like this.

Which religious charity do you work for, out of curiosity?

It's not true that they don't speak Spanish. The ones I've talked to all speak Spanish. I know one who is very fluent (knows all the slang), has a DNI as I suspect many do.

 

[sergio]

his email starts with @ ? That's all?

 

[GMan_27]

They're participating in what appears to be a money laundering operation in broad daylight. Domestically made clothing is protected by tariffs in Argentina, and I'd be shocked if there weren't tax advantages as well. The Africans sit all day pretending to work, and if AFIP comes asking, everyone around definitely noticed them selling clothing. Whose to say how much money they earn? Their business is entirely cash based. Considering the number of vendors involved, no particular clothing wholesaler stands out for being wildly profitable because they split expenses on the Africans, so nobody gets audited by AFIP for being way outside the normal revenue/profit numbers for a clothing wholesaler in the neighborhood. Organized crime is able to launder cash money into the financial system at will. Any other business, well, there's limits; a restaurant can only cook and sell so much food, and if your numbers don't add up you get audited.

.But you're very right, who knows how much money they make? As a bonus, the Senegalese are likely in an irregular migration situation, and don't speak Spanish, so they're unlikely to talk. Who the heck brought them anyhow? In Mexico, half the population of Yucatan works in abandoned shopping malls in the middle of nowhere selling hand-carved tourist trinkets to, well, nobody. Another fantastic cash based business. In Brazil, running a pawnshop is prohibited by law unless you're a state-owned bank so all the gold buying businesses are registered as cell phone accessory stores, which has the advantage that it's fairly easy to dump bags of cell phone accessories in the trash after duly placing an order with the wholesaler to avoid being audited by the Receita Federal.

They're laundering money for organized crime, and are likely being trafficked as well, further contributing to the strengthening of organized crime networks in Argentina. I sincerely hope Milei does something about it. The last thing Argentina needs is to end up a warzone like so many other countries in South America because people were complacent and allowed organized crime to gain a foothold through schemes like this.

Which religious charity do you work for, out of curiosity?

All of these things you mention here that are illegal are things we expats are literally doing. How much tax do you or any of us avoid? How many of us are "irregular" who bounce around borders to make sure we can stay here? "Just overstay your visa" is a common phrase on this forum. How are we any different to them? They are probably more "regular" than many who visit this forum.

I am sure if they are moving massive amounts of money or are illegally trafficking goods or are fronts for serious illegal activities then AFIP would be cracking down on them as they should but most of these people are exactly how you see them. Just ordinary people. Migrant traders. If you think about it these guys are like the libertarian dream. Independent, self reliant, entreprenurial with limited connection to the state and have a strong sense of local community. If these traders on the street are taking jobs or economic opportunities away from ordinary Argentinians then I would say we have more problems than these guys on the street.

These guys are also likely to know four to five languages. French, Wolof or another local language form Senegal, Spanish and English most probably and some may know arabic as well. They have to know Spanish if they are going to sell their wares here.

I also have no doubt they are flouting some laws here to do their business but I think thats the only way you can work here and more often than not these operations are so small that they simply not worth it to go after. Maybe we need to go after the tax dodging expat first? I dunno. Thats up to AFIP.

You speak about Brazil and Mexico but in reality the problems and violence is not from foreigners but from local gangs and narcos. I just dont understand this comparison? Also... how are a few migrants from Africa equating to a warzone?

I am not part of any religious charity but maybe you need one more than I do. A bit of love may go a long way to change your rather xenophobic and racist characterization of these people.

 

[Reply Guy]

They're participating in what appears to be a money laundering operation in broad daylight. Domestically made clothing is protected by tariffs in Argentina, and I'd be shocked if there weren't tax advantages as well. The Africans sit all day pretending to work, and if AFIP comes asking, everyone around definitely noticed them selling clothing. Whose to say how much money they earn? Their business is entirely cash based. Considering the number of vendors involved, no particular clothing wholesaler stands out for being wildly profitable because they split expenses on the Africans, so nobody gets audited by AFIP for being way outside the normal revenue/profit numbers for a clothing wholesaler in the neighborhood. Organized crime is able to launder cash money into the financial system at will. Any other business, well, there's limits; a restaurant can only cook and sell so much food, and if your numbers don't add up you get audited.

.But you're very right, who knows how much money they make? As a bonus, the Senegalese are likely in an irregular migration situation, and don't speak Spanish, so they're unlikely to talk. Who the heck brought them anyhow? In Mexico, half the population of Yucatan works in abandoned shopping malls in the middle of nowhere selling hand-carved tourist trinkets to, well, nobody. Another fantastic cash based business. In Brazil, running a pawnshop is prohibited by law unless you're a state-owned bank so all the gold buying businesses are registered as cell phone accessory stores, which has the advantage that it's fairly easy to dump bags of cell phone accessories in the trash after duly placing an order with the wholesaler to avoid being audited by the Receita Federal.

They're laundering money for organized crime, and are likely being trafficked as well, further contributing to the strengthening of organized crime networks in Argentina. I sincerely hope Milei does something about it. The last thing Argentina needs is to end up a warzone like so many other countries in South America because people were complacent and allowed organized crime to gain a foothold through schemes like this.

Which religious charity do you work for, out of curiosity?

How do you know all of this? It doesn't add up.

There are drug traffickers or dirty politicians that need to launder money so they human traffic Sengalese over to Argentina? Then they register them with AFIP and have them sell bootleg clothing on the side of the street? Seems like the most inefficient laundering operation ever.

Why don't they buy casinos, motels/hotels, chain of restaurants, grocery stores, nightclubs, gas stations, private schools, pharmacies, real estate development, soccer clubs, exchange houses and launder money like proper criminals?

 

[sergio]

All of these things you mention here that are illegal are things we expats are literally doing. How much tax do you or any of us avoid? How many of us are "irregular" who bounce around borders to make sure we can stay here? "Just overstay your visa" is a common phrase on this forum. How are we any different to them? They are probably more "regular" than many who visit this forum.

I am sure if they are moving massive amounts of money or are illegally trafficking goods or are fronts for serious illegal activities then AFIP would be cracking down on them as they should but most of these people are exactly how you see them. Just ordinary people. Migrant traders. If you think about it these guys are like the libertarian dream. Independent, self reliant, entreprenurial with limited connection to the state and have a strong sense of local community. If these traders on the street are taking jobs or economic opportunities away from ordinary Argentinians then I would say we have more problems than these guys on the street.

These guys are also likely to know four to five languages. French, Wolof or another local language form Senegal, Spanish and English most probably and some may know arabic as well. They have to know Spanish if they are going to sell their wares here.

I also have no doubt they are flouting some laws here to do their business but I think thats the only way you can work here and more often than not these operations are so small that they simply not worth it to go after. Maybe we need to go after the tax dodging expat first? I dunno. Thats up to AFIP.

You speak about Brazil and Mexico but in reality the problems and violence is not from foreigners but from local gangs and narcos. I just dont understand this comparison? Also... how are a few migrants from Africa equating to a warzone?

I am not part of any religious charity but maybe you need one more than I do. A bit of love may go a long way to change your rather xenophobic and racist characterization of these people.

I know one of the Senegalese street vendors. A very decent person. And also he has a DNI. I don't see how these people are causing any problems.

 

[gringoexpress]

How do you know all of this? It doesn't add up.

There are drug traffickers or dirty politicians that need to launder money so they human traffic Sengalese over to Argentina? Then they register them with AFIP and have them sell bootleg clothing on the side of the street? Seems like the most inefficient laundering operation ever.

Why don't they buy casinos, motels/hotels, chain of restaurants, grocery stores, nightclubs, gas stations, private schools, pharmacies, real estate development, soccer clubs, exchange houses and launder money like proper criminals?

presumably it's cheaper percentage-wise, or perhaps whoever is doing it isn't big-league enough to afford a casino