The Pollster Poll

[internationalguy]

Being a witness to these meetings, I think I can comment pretty accurately about what IG told Joe about these details.

The bolded text below is not true. You said you used Joe's money on living expenses and used your money to gamble. Do you really not realize that you are rationalizing?

The bolded text below is not true. When you spend someone else's money without their knowledge AND permission, you are stealing. Just because you have paid 85% of it back makes no difference on the act itself.


The bolded text below is untrue. You have a will. You willed yourself to go to Punta. You willed yourself to accept Joe's request. You willed yourself to accept the cash from Zoom. You willed yourself to spend it. Whether there were circumstances that were out of your control that influenced your will is still your will. Accept responsibility, man.


The bolded text below is not true. Joe is still affected by this until you have paid him back in full. If it seems like such a small amount that you can just shrug it off now as being a non-issue, then why is it so hard for you to pay him back in full? Quit trying to make it easier for yourself and man up. This is what happens when you become a grown up and have real consequences for selfish actions. Pay your dues and be done with it, dude.

I'm sorry M, I tried multiquoting but it didn't work.


I will just reply to your claims. I know you were there and you're missing the point. I'm not disputing the wrongdoing on my part. What part of that is not clear. I'm just taking it from the premise that I have admited my guilt and have apologized. I'm not trying to say otherwise. That said, I'm only guilty of so much of what I've been accused of, and I don't think stealing is it.

1. Yes I did play poker, but it was 3 tournaments with a 100 dollar buy in. I said so in that meeting. 300 dollars, not 1000. Out of those 3 I placed high enough to get my money back twice. So poker was not the reason these events happened.

2. Again, I'm not trying to say that what I did wasn't wrong. I'm just saying that it was something wrong with a different name. Also, and this is what I don't understand people not understanding that I'm not trying to make my actions appear as right. I'm trying to show people that after my wrongdoing I tried to do everything I could to make it right and to not hide, not shy away from the responsibility You don't seem to realize that these things speak volumes about intentions and believe it or not, moral character can exist despite a wrong action. What's really unfair and this is what you seem not to understand is that I'm getting a treatment that's no different from the one a real con artist who care about Joe or about doing the right thing would be getting. I think that despite my original action (call it whatever you want), my subsequent actions were good and I think that means something.

3. Again, no one is running from responsibility. I'm just saying I didn't mean to cause him any harm. Why is that not clear?

4. I'm not trying to make it easier. I'm trying to make it fair. The only reason I'm here before the 85% became 100% was because of the poll that used my real name. I think that by now I've proven enough that I'm entitled to come here and ask for some respect and privacy whether you (plural you) choose to hate me or not. I'm not shrugging anything off. I'm just trying to keep proportions. I wouldn't be here had it not been for the pollster poll. The only reason I've been posting has been because people have been asking questions. I think you can't tell me to man up. I've tried to make it right in every possible way. I don't want anything from anyone, I don't want to push aside my responsibility, you really haven't been reading that I've been saying. You're nitpicking factual errors (not that you're even right about all of them) but you ignore all the points that I make that are true.

 

[internationalguy]

Sorry IG. Let's just call a spade a spade. There is a lot that you wrote in this paragraph that is 100% not true. We could start with the word "momentarily" and begin making a list from there.

Get real, man. You are getting skewered, and rightly so.

I am real. GS, I really hope that you would understand and really capture the essence of what I'm saying. I've covered some of the things in my previous reply, but be assured, this isn't about dodging responsibility. I've been facing this issue from the very first day. I'm not even trying to win public approval. I'm just sharing my thoughts and I think that there are a lot of positives that shouldn't be ignored either. You know, all the actions after the action that I mentioned?

 

[GMXam]

I'm sorry M, I tried multiquoting but it didn't work.


I will just reply to your claims. I know you were there and you're missing the point. I'm not disputing the wrongdoing on my part. What part of that is not clear. I'm just taking it from the premise that I have admited my guilt and have apologized. I'm not trying to say otherwise. That said, I'm only guilty of so much of what I've been accused of, and I don't think stealing is it.

1. Yes I did play poker, but it was 3 tournaments with a 100 dollar buy in. I said so in that meeting. 300 dollars, not 1000. Out of those 3 I placed high enough to get my money back twice. So poker was not the reason these events happened.

2. Again, I'm not trying to say that what I did wasn't wrong. I'm just saying that it was something wrong with a different name. Also, and this is what I don't understand people not understanding that I'm not trying to make my actions appear as right. I'm trying to show people that after my wrongdoing I tried to do everything I could to make it right and to not hide, not shy away from the responsibility You don't seem to realize that these things speak volumes about intentions and believe it or not, moral character can exist despite a wrong action. What's really unfair and this is what you seem not to understand is that I'm getting a treatment that's no different from the one a real con artist who care about Joe or about doing the right thing would be getting. I think that despite my original action (call it whatever you want), my subsequent actions were good and I think that means something.

3. Again, no one is running from responsibility. I'm just saying I didn't mean to cause him any harm. Why is that not clear?

4. I'm not trying to make it easier. I'm trying to make it fair.

Look, IG, you don't get it. People who have been wronged OR are friends with someone who's been wronged will defend that person. You, unfortunately, do not understand that until the wrong is righted, those friends of the wronged are not willing to forgive or forget or make it fair or make it easy. You, unfortunately, do not understand that people don't hate you; they are upset that a fellow expat treated another expat in a way that none of us wants to be treated. Life is hard enough in BA without non-con artists spending other expats' dollars without their permission.

I wasn't going to respond to your comments until I realized you were trying to misrepresent the facts. Your responses (1,2,3,4 above) do nothing to negate mine. Please stop trying to explain and pay up to Joe. You may think you are explaining, but you come off seeming non-remorseful, irresponsible, and playful with your words. However way you want to portray it, your actions have already proven your intent for spending someone else's money without asking their permission to fund your lifestyle, regardless of what that lifestyle is. Your action of paying Joe off in full may redeem you, but you've yet to do that and should not expect anything more from anyone on this forum.

As for your name being used on this post, I really don't know why you made this about you. You have now successfully linked everything we've typed here to your real name if others haven't already read the other posts. Good job.

 

[EdRooney]

Looks like i started the feel good thread of the year. Laissez les bons temps rouler!

 

[Crema Americana]

As someone who is neutral, having never met anyone from the forum, it's difficult to be understanding or give credit for showing face when 1. the situation is still not fully resolved and 2. it's very difficult to imagine myself in your predicament.

The fact is you spent Joe's money while it was in your possession. That is stealing because it wasn't your money to spend. The technical difficulties with the wire transfer and prolonging your stay are excuses when you could have simply put that money in an envelope with Joe's name on it, sealed it, and at some point handed it to Joe in full. I'm still not sure what you mean when you say things got "out of hand." What got out of hand?

As for the positives... I'm afraid you're not going to get much credit for showing up to meetings with Joe empty handed or for not changing your username. In fact some may say cara dura... Making things right means actually making things right... not promising, apologizing, explaining, extending deadlines, or trying to save face. As they say, all a man has is his name and his word and people judge based on that. I think you know you didn't do everything you could to make things right... if that were true, you would have started paying Joe back months ago.



I think everyone wants to see a positive solution. Obviously the frustration and difficulties caused to Joe can't be undone, but you can pay whatever's left of your debt and hopefully put this to rest. Some may never trust you from this point on and you can't change the poor choices you made here, but I think you would be happier (and others who meet you as well) if you were a little more careful and protective of your integrity and word. I'm sure this is difficult for you -- I think I would have tucked tail and never showed up here again -- but I do think you want to be a good guy, just an inability to completely recognize the fault you personally had in this whole situation. If you find these "out of hand" situations happening often in your life, it may be time to really reflect on the cause and how to change it. It's rather self destructive and whatever benefit you got from the cash has to be offset by the fallout.