The President of Democracy Raul Alfonsin Dies

perry

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What a sad day it seems with the funeral of Raul Alfonsin the former president who guided Argentina out of dictatorship and into democracy . He was the only president I know in Argentina who is universally respected for being honest and a great diplomat.

The weather today 16 degrees and overcast matches the sombre mood in Capital Federal.
 

Moxon

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I guess changing the constitution for the benefit of one man can't really be called dishonest (I'm sure this was a great act of diplomacy but he never would tell anyone what he got out of the Olivos pact so its kind of hard to evaluate) neither can the two laws he drafted and had passed that stopped the trials of the military dead in their tracks for nearly 20 years.

His death has blown these little details and a few others off the radar, symbolism and sweeping statements dominate, some things are the same the whole world over.

He may be a saint by next week sometime.
 

tangobob

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I'd give up if I were you Pericles, you cannot write anything either up beat or optImistic, or even speak well of the dead, without some muppet wanting to have a go.
EVERYONE WHO EVER MADE A LAW SHOULD BE SHOT, WE ARE ALL DOOMED ANYWAY!
 

macondo

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Moxon said:
I guess changing the constitution for the benefit of one man can't really be called dishonest (I'm sure this was a great act of diplomacy but he never would tell anyone what he got out of the Olivos pact so its kind of hard to evaluate) neither can the two laws he drafted and had passed that stopped the trials of the military dead in their tracks for nearly 20 years.

His death has blown these little details and a few others off the radar, symbolism and sweeping statements dominate, some things are the same the whole world over.

He may be a saint by next week sometime.

Hi, excuse me, where did you get that data, it's totally wrong, try to read something about argentine history before post please.
 

Moxon

Registered
macondo said:
Hi, excuse me, where did you get that data, it's totally wrong, try to read something about argentine history before post please.
As there is to my knowledge no controversy over the existence or the effect of the laws (Ley de Punto Final & Ley de Obediencia Debida) or Alfonsín's involvement, the burden of proof is on you to show how these mainstream historical conclusions were erroneously reached even by Alfonsin himself it seems, who to my knowledge never denied that the laws were proposed, drafted and promulgated at his instigation. The same applies to the Pacto de Olivos, the actors (Menem and Alfonsín) and the effect (constitutional changes allowing Menem to run for a second term).

Of course I'd be interested in reading some alternative analysis if you could point me in the right direction.

I don't object to the glowing tributes regarding Alfonsín's character but he served in public office in a tumultuous time even by Argentine standards and these were controversial decisions. I know the reasons given for them but I was just hoping that the retrospective political analysis in the media could have been a little less sugar coated, this hasn't been the case.
 

gouchobob

Registered
Moxon said:
As there is to my knowledge no controversy over the existence or the effect of the laws (Ley de Punto Final & Ley de Obediencia Debida) or Alfonsín's involvement, the burden of proof is on you to show how these mainstream historical conclusions were erroneously reached even by Alfonsin himself it seems, who to my knowledge never denied that the laws were proposed, drafted and promulgated at his instigation. The same applies to the Pacto de Olivos, the actors (Menem and Alfonsín) and the effect (constitutional changes allowing Menem to run for a second term).

Of course I'd be interested in reading some alternative analysis if you could point me in the right direction.

I don't object to the glowing tributes regarding Alfonsín's character but he served in public office in a tumultuous time even by Argentine standards and these were controversial decisions. I know the reasons given for them but I was just hoping that the retrospective political analysis in the media could have been a little less sugar coated, this hasn't been the case.
Actually I think you got the facts right.

http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13415547
 

sergio

Registered
Didn't Alfonsin have to resign before the end of his term because he couldn't handle the economy? And why did he allow the torturers to go free? Seems that one of the few good things the Kirchners have done is to prosecute these human rights violators....a bit late, I'd say. So why such a huge turn out for his funeral? A friend of mine said that his mother struggled to make ends meet during his Presidency and she has no love for the man. The fact that he smoked himself to death seems to have been lost as well. Am I missing something?
 
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