2GuysInPM
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Here's another one... Brand new Starbucks... before (you can see it coming) and a few days after... one unlucky pedestrian injured. 
The state of the construction industry
- Thread starter Fabe
- Start date
gpop
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Hi Fabe and others,
I make furniture, built-ins, custom work, etc with little or no metal (nails, screws, staples), mainly using finger/box/dovetail joints and glue, so my inclination is more to the more exotic semi-hard and hard woods, (though I have become very interested in the local Paraiso stock), but I have managed to compile a little list of BA or Provincia companies that "say" they have what I'm looking for, however this may give you some alternatives:
http://www.madersama.com.ar/
http://www.cadamda.org.ar
http://www.cadamda.org.ar/portal/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=39
http://www.jorgebarcia.com.ar
http://www.dac.com.ar
http://www.dommarco.com.ar/
dismech.com.ar
http://www.maderera.com.ar/
http://www.ngamaderas.com/
http://www.lusichehijos.com
http://www.emporiodelterciado.com.ar
http://www.vetas.com
the cadamda & vetas are more industry oriented listings portals, but they do offer listings that are way better than what I have found in mercadolibre, and certainly better than easy/sodimac and local "hobbyist" madererias. I hope it helps.
As for the discrepancies in the ACTUAL, ADVERTISED, and standard dimensioning of the stock... I'm almost at the point of milling my own if I could find a decent band-saw within my price range.
I am utterly perturbed at the thought of having to talk to another idiot behind an order desk. I have to beg my Argie brother-in-law to come with me just to not get WORSE service just because they sense that I am a foreigner.
A few months ago I was desperately looking to find plywood for some projects I had around my house, and trying to find leads for 4 or 6mm marine ply to build a little beach-cat... I almost went bald pulling my hair out BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN USE THE SAME WORD FROM ONE END OF THE CITY TO THE OTHER to describe it!
Try it in google translate. Find a comparable word, then go to any builder shops and ask them. They won't know. Maybe go down a list of words, ya might hit one of them that they understand, but that's no guarantee that you will eventually get what you expect. I mean, is it fenolico, terciado, compensado, contraenchapado. No two places will give me the same answer, nor will I get the quality or variety that you get in northAm. As for tools...forgetaboutit! I have to go with pictures of tools hoping they can identify a pony pipe clamp without sending me to the plumbing dept.
Is it grapa, prensa???
Part of the problem is asking for what you want at the ferreterias; although places like megamaq on JB Justo @ Nasca has a showroom with 'some' decent options and there are competitors near by to compare with. I only wish I could find miter slot extension aluminium, slide bars, proper bolts/nuts and the like... jig making has never been so primitive and frustrating I'll be 80 by the time i can get out on the water at this rate!
Gab
I make furniture, built-ins, custom work, etc with little or no metal (nails, screws, staples), mainly using finger/box/dovetail joints and glue, so my inclination is more to the more exotic semi-hard and hard woods, (though I have become very interested in the local Paraiso stock), but I have managed to compile a little list of BA or Provincia companies that "say" they have what I'm looking for, however this may give you some alternatives:
http://www.madersama.com.ar/
http://www.cadamda.org.ar
http://www.cadamda.org.ar/portal/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=39
http://www.jorgebarcia.com.ar
http://www.dac.com.ar
http://www.dommarco.com.ar/
dismech.com.ar
http://www.maderera.com.ar/
http://www.ngamaderas.com/
http://www.lusichehijos.com
http://www.emporiodelterciado.com.ar
http://www.vetas.com
the cadamda & vetas are more industry oriented listings portals, but they do offer listings that are way better than what I have found in mercadolibre, and certainly better than easy/sodimac and local "hobbyist" madererias. I hope it helps.
As for the discrepancies in the ACTUAL, ADVERTISED, and standard dimensioning of the stock... I'm almost at the point of milling my own if I could find a decent band-saw within my price range.
I am utterly perturbed at the thought of having to talk to another idiot behind an order desk. I have to beg my Argie brother-in-law to come with me just to not get WORSE service just because they sense that I am a foreigner.
A few months ago I was desperately looking to find plywood for some projects I had around my house, and trying to find leads for 4 or 6mm marine ply to build a little beach-cat... I almost went bald pulling my hair out BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN USE THE SAME WORD FROM ONE END OF THE CITY TO THE OTHER to describe it!
Try it in google translate. Find a comparable word, then go to any builder shops and ask them. They won't know. Maybe go down a list of words, ya might hit one of them that they understand, but that's no guarantee that you will eventually get what you expect. I mean, is it fenolico, terciado, compensado, contraenchapado. No two places will give me the same answer, nor will I get the quality or variety that you get in northAm. As for tools...forgetaboutit! I have to go with pictures of tools hoping they can identify a pony pipe clamp without sending me to the plumbing dept.
Is it grapa, prensa???
Part of the problem is asking for what you want at the ferreterias; although places like megamaq on JB Justo @ Nasca has a showroom with 'some' decent options and there are competitors near by to compare with. I only wish I could find miter slot extension aluminium, slide bars, proper bolts/nuts and the like... jig making has never been so primitive and frustrating
I'll be 80 by the time i can get out on the water at this rate!Gab
Hey , WOW .Great post !
Im interested in talking shop with you . I made a jig just the other day .
I also had to get a couple of those pump clamos and a length of rectangular tubing. Now I set my fence by manualy measuring against the blade.
Explain what you mean by miter slots , what do u use them for ?
Im interested in talking shop with you . I made a jig just the other day .
I also had to get a couple of those pump clamos and a length of rectangular tubing. Now I set my fence by manualy measuring against the blade.
Explain what you mean by miter slots , what do u use them for ?
The thing about the various names something has , I figured out that it must be that argentines are experts a being on the spot geniuses.
God phorbid they will admit to not knowing something. They will come up with some haf assed bird brained explanation that has nothing to do with the price of cheese.
Ever get into the whole "this wood isnt dry " argument? Ihave heard everythng from mothballs and deisel ( para curar) to saying a few out fathers to the gauchito gil on the day of the waxing moon !
The only solution for undried wood , is dried wood.
Wanna hear something buggy ? I have not been able to find any commercial seller of conventional dimensional lumber. However. Of all places , I found a villero that manages to bring to his place shipping crates that he takes the time to denail and sell. So far I purchased some 5/4 lengths , and orderd 100 2x6s . I have yet to see the 2x6s and this has been going on for 3 weeks now. He sais monday .....
Id like to tap into the shipping crate thing. Its the only place as of now that can garantee me dried construction grade dimensional lumber
God phorbid they will admit to not knowing something. They will come up with some haf assed bird brained explanation that has nothing to do with the price of cheese.
Ever get into the whole "this wood isnt dry " argument? Ihave heard everythng from mothballs and deisel ( para curar) to saying a few out fathers to the gauchito gil on the day of the waxing moon !
The only solution for undried wood , is dried wood.
Wanna hear something buggy ? I have not been able to find any commercial seller of conventional dimensional lumber. However. Of all places , I found a villero that manages to bring to his place shipping crates that he takes the time to denail and sell. So far I purchased some 5/4 lengths , and orderd 100 2x6s . I have yet to see the 2x6s and this has been going on for 3 weeks now. He sais monday .....
Id like to tap into the shipping crate thing. Its the only place as of now that can garantee me dried construction grade dimensional lumber
gpop
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Fabe said:
Miter slots are the 3/4" t-tracks on either side of your table saw (or other bench tools) that are there to guide your miter gauge or fences, but really nifty to make sliding jigs: crosscut sleds, tenon jigs, etc. Lee Valley (THE BEST PLACE EVER!!!) sells Incra extrusions and fences : http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43455&p=66239 and they are ridiculously cheap. Home depot has them too ii think.
I've been to a few aluminium providers in and around caballito/villa del parque and there is NOTHING even resembling what I need in the size that I need.
I've been looking to make a work bench with extensions for jig making and so that I can cut panels on my table saw without needing another person to assist me, buuut now I am thinking maybe it's a pipe-dream to find those extrusions (I lie... i did find them once on mercadolibre, but the seller wanted something like 300pesos for something like a meter of aluminium and some slot runners). I can simulate these by sandwiching panel segments together in that "T" form, unfortunately they do tend to swell-up during particularly humid weather and you pretty much gotta use melamine with a glossy laminate so there is no grabbing between your work top and the jig. So, I think I am going to build a vertical panel cutting jig (like the ones they use at Easy) on an inclined wooden grid with a couple of pipes, some wheels, and my skil-saw on a sliding sled.
There is always a solution if you want it bad enough I guess, the matter is really how much of a headache is it going to actually be to complete... and how much are you willing to spend
.Cheers
Gab
gpop
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Fabe said:
Yeah, well, recently bought a pack of 1X2 1/2" pine "liston cepillado" to build a folding screen, I left one out in the sun while I was taking a phone call inside. When I came out, the piece had warped so badly that it was unusable. I mean you expect that with the eucalyptus "obra" stock, not the stuff that actually has KILN DRIED written on the package. Warping like that is indicative of humidity issues - one side is drying in the sun while the other isn't so it warps.
Still... geez... 15 minutes ... WTF!
Fabe said:
Done that, my wife was not to happy about it cuz she was walking with me when i found it (then the "cartonero" comments abound), but she don't see what I see! Usable, perfectly good wood that just needs to be recycled.
Actually, I see SO MUCH waste piled up in the streets as garbage. I'll salvage any of those shipping pallets that I find in the street, some of the heavier parts are still usable once I cut away the crud layer on top.
Also, I am amazed at what ppl throw out. I have found prime hardwood on the side of the street...just needs some sanding and voila!
cheers
Gab
Oh , yeah ! , Tslots ! , uh , ya forget about it . Not gonna happen here !.
I made a jig recently and have the exact problem. Remember the fence i told you about ?
I just realized that you can make a sled and with either plywood or melamine , . Make a square groove with a router , not a dovetail or a t slot but hey , it will work. THEN , screw in as straight as possible , what will become the narrower section of the tslot. Then , make the slider with 2 different withs wood to creat the actual runner/ slider.
Dont u hate havint to improvise something that is just so plainly available anywhere else in the world ???????
I made a jig recently and have the exact problem. Remember the fence i told you about ?
I just realized that you can make a sled and with either plywood or melamine , . Make a square groove with a router , not a dovetail or a t slot but hey , it will work. THEN , screw in as straight as possible , what will become the narrower section of the tslot. Then , make the slider with 2 different withs wood to creat the actual runner/ slider.
Dont u hate havint to improvise something that is just so plainly available anywhere else in the world ???????
gpop
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I'll be trying Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) Polyethylene if I can find it, or the stuff they make plastic cutting boards out of (like the ones they use in restaurants) for the slider bars.
I don't mind improvising so much as having to go through a long list of alternatives and find that NONE are available, or not available now, or they don't really know what the hell I am talking about so they give me a lukewarm answer that makes me believe that the stuff I am seeking may be available at some time. I know that the ppl working in the shops don't care one way or the other, this is something unfortunate and quite confusing about the ppl that have to deal with the public; to them I'm being obtuse for even asking more than one question or not settling for what they give me. BA isn't the only place I've run into this attitude, JFK airport in New York... it's scary trying to get an answer from one of those women at the info booths if she's busy talking to one of her girlfriends about her nails... I keep getting "the hand"
My point though, is that in a society that is so troubled by the current state of the economy; management doesn't seem to stimulate any kind of customer service/satisfaction standards to keep customers coming back.
I'm very methodical when I am out to purchase my materials and I know what I want so if one place doesn't have it, I go elsewhere. I will not put money down on anything unless it is what I want. I may consider alternatives if there is a feasibility to the proposal (if the 2X4" are not 1 1/2 x 3 1/2", OK, I can live with that cuz I can cut to the standard size then keep the scraps as 1/2" trim or make moldings out of it, I mean better to have more than less right?). What irks me is the "bait-and-switch", false imagery or descriptions of products, and no warning of a "wait period".
Your original post about the state of construction here is a very frustrating topic indeed. In the 7+ years I've been living here I've come to understand much about how things work here and why some things never seem to change.
Someone once told me: you can find anything you want to find in BA, it's just a matter of searching the right places and paying the right price. What I had to learn the hard way was that the readily existing materials are available for the existing trades only.
Ries mentioned the japanese proverb, Dont push the river- it flows. Sure, i can understand that but that doesn't change the fact that I want what I want, and will not be swayed to another way. I may learn to adapt aspects that serve me, but that doesn't change my needs.
The foreign policy though makes it all the harder to get the materials, expertise, and training that would at least improve the state of construction here. At least they started to use drywall... now if they only had a clue on how to put it up properly. It's not supposed to be resting on the floor people!!!
My next home will be a log cabin...hand made, with a hammock in the back so i can Fred Flintstone it with a cactus juice and a nap
I don't mind improvising so much as having to go through a long list of alternatives and find that NONE are available, or not available now, or they don't really know what the hell I am talking about so they give me a lukewarm answer that makes me believe that the stuff I am seeking may be available at some time. I know that the ppl working in the shops don't care one way or the other, this is something unfortunate and quite confusing about the ppl that have to deal with the public; to them I'm being obtuse for even asking more than one question or not settling for what they give me. BA isn't the only place I've run into this attitude, JFK airport in New York... it's scary trying to get an answer from one of those women at the info booths if she's busy talking to one of her girlfriends about her nails... I keep getting "the hand"
My point though, is that in a society that is so troubled by the current state of the economy; management doesn't seem to stimulate any kind of customer service/satisfaction standards to keep customers coming back.
I'm very methodical when I am out to purchase my materials and I know what I want so if one place doesn't have it, I go elsewhere. I will not put money down on anything unless it is what I want. I may consider alternatives if there is a feasibility to the proposal (if the 2X4" are not 1 1/2 x 3 1/2", OK, I can live with that cuz I can cut to the standard size then keep the scraps as 1/2" trim or make moldings out of it, I mean better to have more than less right?). What irks me is the "bait-and-switch", false imagery or descriptions of products, and no warning of a "wait period".
Your original post about the state of construction here is a very frustrating topic indeed. In the 7+ years I've been living here I've come to understand much about how things work here and why some things never seem to change.
Someone once told me: you can find anything you want to find in BA, it's just a matter of searching the right places and paying the right price. What I had to learn the hard way was that the readily existing materials are available for the existing trades only.
Ries mentioned the japanese proverb, Dont push the river- it flows. Sure, i can understand that but that doesn't change the fact that I want what I want, and will not be swayed to another way. I may learn to adapt aspects that serve me, but that doesn't change my needs.
The foreign policy though makes it all the harder to get the materials, expertise, and training that would at least improve the state of construction here. At least they started to use drywall... now if they only had a clue on how to put it up properly. It's not supposed to be resting on the floor people!!!
My next home will be a log cabin...hand made, with a hammock in the back so i can Fred Flintstone it with a cactus juice and a nap
Hi Gpop !
HAHAH , yes ! , welcome to my nightmare !!!!
The experiences you describe are almost EXACTLY what I endure !.
I say to all of those that pull that crap : " Dont call yourself a lumber mill ! A lumber mill doesnt sell wood that is 100% useless for anything other than to build a casilla !
I think some of us should get together and do some hobying. Although Im about an hour from Capital, I do have a stable that Im slowly turning into my hobby shop/ wood shop and machine shop.
I just had delivered about 50 2x6s x 8' . Beleive it or not , that lumber came from the states, in the form of shipping crates. The have nail holes , but still supierior to the crap they pass as wood here !!!
HAHAH , yes ! , welcome to my nightmare !!!!
The experiences you describe are almost EXACTLY what I endure !.
I say to all of those that pull that crap : " Dont call yourself a lumber mill ! A lumber mill doesnt sell wood that is 100% useless for anything other than to build a casilla !
I think some of us should get together and do some hobying. Although Im about an hour from Capital, I do have a stable that Im slowly turning into my hobby shop/ wood shop and machine shop.
I just had delivered about 50 2x6s x 8' . Beleive it or not , that lumber came from the states, in the form of shipping crates. The have nail holes , but still supierior to the crap they pass as wood here !!!
