"There are few profitable investments left in Argentina...." - New York Times

[Noelle]

Yes dear no problem, I totally agree with you. maybe I did not make myself understand well? I dont support Arg investment at the moments as stakes are high. The argentine are desperate to get their money out, I dont blame them as it keeps depreciating but going for US?? I think they are going from bad to worse...In my experience Ecuador to stay within the US$ while investing in a new emerging economy. Ecuador worked the best at least for me and I did a lot of research and traveling. Even Brazil is now a days a great market though is at its peak so properties are overpriced.

 

[earlyretirement]

I know folks...I am sorry I sound negative I am just realistic though...I wouldnt invest in BA nor in USA now. US is deep in debt and heading and each day China buys up more of the US bond debt. US is just printing money to circulate through the economy to support the presidential momentum by at the end they are driving themselves off the cliff.
I almost bought in Arg back in 2006 but thank God the closing didnt go through...I would have gotten stuck with depreciating pesos.
Early retirement: I was going to buy in Boston, MA but only with mortgage application, property insurance, formal appraisal report and detailed finantials...the only good was its proximity to Harvard but buying in Argentina was easier afterall... I bought in Ecuador where the currency is also US$, using only signed sale agreement, proof of paid taxes and evidence of no existing mortgages. The closing went smooth in three days. Oh btw for more investment info CDs are up to 8% income interest! Given the instability in the rest of the world I feel safe and feel blessed to have made the best of my bucks in a country with a growing economy...just my personal experience...

Nothing wrong at all with sounding or being negative. I just think it's always good to have accurate information and details.

Absolutely the USA has it's share of problems. No doubt about it. But I'd still rather own hard assets like real estate in desirable areas that are very easy to rent.

Yes, if you are trying to get a loan/mortgage in the USA there is a lot of paperwork. As you mentioned, you have to fill out the mortgage application (which isn't difficult), then show last 2 years taxes, W2 forms, bank account statements for the last few months as well as statements from investment accounts. And they will also run a credit check with all 3 bureaus and get a FICO score. But that's basically it.

I just got approved to buy an investment property. From the time I was sent the list of things to supply to the time I was approved for the loan was literally 5 hours. I sent all of it in PDF format and they had it approved by the end of the day. So it's not always difficult if you're credit worthy.

I'm a bit confused. In Ecuador, did you get a mortgage/loan for the property? Or did you pay cash?

These Argentinos buying in the USA are paying cash so the process couldn't be easier. They don't even have to get their credit checked, fill out any applications or even get an appraisal or inspection if they don't want.

I've closed on properties before in the USA from time my offer was accepted to closing it was only 2 weeks.

I'd love to hear about if a bank in Ecuador is giving a non-resident a mortgage? Is that the case with you? Thanks in advance.

 

[Noelle]

Again...anybody reading the small prints and researching market trends knows the economy in US is already in bad shape and heading for worse...I just hope people can still make an income, let alone resale its property..and the HOA are high there. NY has one of the highest price per sqft... an easy rental? when it had a promising future...I decide t diversify a bit by thinking long term.
In Ecuador you can still get a 3000 sqft on the ocean (beach weather all year long) for US$ 275.000...with that money you can hopefully get a studio in NY while here you are buying in a beach resort area, making good income in dollars and in holding your property in a growing economy based mainly in oil exports. Taxes and HOA are still low. In fact there is number of expats coming to retire here which also like me appreciate the laid back healthier lifestyle. That is why say It worked for me at least!!
I purchased in cash, for the price you make a deposit in NY you can actually buy a house in whole here...no more mortgages!!

 

[citygirl]

NY apts have a fabulous ROI if you can afford to buy there and there is NO shortage of renters. In general, in my previous world, we actually saw a lot of signs of improvement in the economy and lots and lots of companies making lots of money and hiring. While it's certainly not the most rosy of times, it's probably not as bleak as some would have you believe either.

Lots of decent places around the world to buy of course. I certainly wouldn't have considered Ecuador as a potential buy for a rental property but if it is working - that's great.

If I were buying, I wouldn't be looking at Miami for the reasons Earlyretirement mentioned - lots of hurricane risk and insurance expenses. But I do know quite a few people from here that have bought there for exactly the reasons outlined in the article. They wanted/needed their money out of Argentina, they bought in cash and it couldn't have been easier and they are looking at the apts as either a vacation destination for themselves and/or rental property. No complaints at all from the people I know who bought there so far.

 

[earlyretirement]

I purchased in cash

Thanks for confirming you paid cash. There is a big difference because you made a big point about how much paperwork and hassles of buying in the USA. Yet, if you paid cash (like many are doing now buying in the USA even Americans) it's very simple.

So you can't compare getting a mortgage in the USA and ""a lot of nonsense of papers, taxes and regulations of buying in the USA" with paying cash in Ecuador.

Because quite frankly those paying to buy cash in the USA don't have any hassles at all. In all honesty, it couldn't be simpler and you don't even have a lot of closing costs like you do in other countries.

You simply can't compare a place like Ecuador where most people will never go or have no desire to go with places like NYC. It's like night and day.

Like Citygirl mentioned, if it works for you great! I always love hearing people finding great places to buy real estate and it producing great cash flow. But you can't dismiss the USA as a horrible place to invest in real estate because quite frankly it isn't.

 

[earlyretirement]

Just for those of you keeping track at home.

Buying a property in the USA with cash entails making an offer. Once that offer is accepted and all conditions of the sale are met, you simply schedule a closing date. A few days before closing, you wire the proceeds to an escrow company. Heck, with docusign, you don't even have to show up to any closing these days! My last cash purchase I didn't even have to show up to closing and the documents were all signed with electronic PDF. Very easy!

In Argentina when I paid cash, I had to first get a CDI number which was a pain as I had to go to the police station, wait a few days for them to show up, then go down to AFIP and stand in line several hours to get my CDI number.

Then I had to go through the process to opening up an account at a money transfer firm there which wasn't the most efficient process either. They did ask to see copies of tax returns in the USA, a resume and some other things.

Let me tell you wiring in the CASH with NO escrow company isn't the best feeling in the world. Then I had to go to closing and actually hand over $100 bills. Very strange and surreal experience.

I'm not speaking at all which is the better investment. I'm just speaking from a pure paperwork/closing process since Noelle mentioned it.

There is no comparison at all as far as the ease and simplicity of buying in the USA with cash compared to other places.

 

[sergio]

For all its current problems, the US is not going to sink, far from it. Immigrants keep pouring in, people rich and poor seek Green Cards. Argentine investors are not stupid. They know this. They choose Miami because it is accessible to BA, an easy overnight flight. CFK has radically changed the panorama and getting money out of Argentina is now a matter of urgency. She's stalled, if not devastated, the BA real estate market. Whatever they think of US foreign policy, Argentine investors know that in the US there is judicial security and respect for law. Policies do not change overnight and even when there is a crisis in financial institutions bank accounts are insured and backed by the US government. These are just facts and accepting them doesn't mean that you have to like Bush, the Republican Party, Wall Street financiers or MacDonald's.

 

[earlyretirement]

For all its current problems, the US is not going to sink, far from it. Immigrants keep pouring in, people rich and poor seek Green Cards. Argentine investors are not stupid. They know this. They choose Miami because it is accessible to BA, an easy overnight flight. CFK has radically changed the panorama and getting money out of Argentina is now a matter of urgency. She's stalled, if not devastated, the BA real estate market. Whatever they think of US foreign policy, Argentine investors know that in the US there is judicial security and respect for law. Policies do not change overnight and even when there is a crisis in financial institutions bank accounts are insured and backed by the US government. These are just facts and accepting them doesn't mean that you have to like Bush, the Republican Party, Wall Street financiers or MacDonald's.

Exactly. The USA has problems but the judicial system there works and property rights will ALWAYS be respected. The same can't be said for Argentina. The judicial system there doesn't exist for the most part. Property rights for now are respected but who knows in the future if the same will be true.

Porteños don't always win with buying US real estate. I personally know MANY Porteños that got KILLED buying in Miami or other places in Florida during the bubble years.

But there is a huge difference buying real estate during the bubble and buying real estate now in the USA. In some prices real estate was 75% lower picking up last year from peak prices.

Sometimes real estate is about timing. During the bubble years it got totally crazy with people buying things with no documentation. These days they scrutinize everything and NO ONE is getting a mortgage unless they are qualified for the most part.

Also, in many markets people are buying with all cash. So there is a huge difference buying real estate during the bubble and buying now.

I'm not a big fan of Miami or Florida real estate but for those that are....there are some properties that sold during the peak at almost $500,000 for a 1 bedroom / 1 bathroom in South Beach that were sold for almost $100,000 last year.

Obviously if you were an Argentina and bought a place like that during the bubble you got crushed. But you can't confuse buying something during the bubble vs. buying now.

I do think that some places real estate will NEVER get back to bubble peak prices (Miami, Las Vegas, Phoenix, etc) but some places in desirable places like Southern California there is almost no inventory and you go to buy and are beat out with all cash offers.

The key is timing but also location, location, location as usual.

 

[Noelle]

No problem folks, I understand its all good. This is an abundant world of opportunities. In the best interest of people I would suggest US only when its economy is fixed and the ones in power dont seem all too focus unfortunately:

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/shilling-housing-prices-falling/2012/04/27/id/437343

http://money.msn.com/investing/will-home-prices-fall-20-percent-more-mirhaydari.aspx

I mean to inform about other good investment regions as I can speak of my experience and advice others as well. Global info sources in other languages support my thoughts on US but this is an english forum...will keep it in english! Southamerica is growing...I feel bad for the ARG only looking north because a different approach worked for me and the growing expat group here looking for an alternative US$ investment, healthier lifestyle, low taxes, low inflation, expanding economy, growing international trading and beautiful scenery....I wish everybody the best!

 

[Noelle]

..."and all conditions of the sale are met"...

Precisely!!!