Transferring Funds, Argentina To Us And Vice Versa

[tha_genius]

Hi, i live in the US.. And have found a nice business opportunity on Argentinas Mercado Libre (Argentinian Ebay) but i am left stumped on how I would go about banking, withdrawing etc. ? I have heard of MercadoPago but i believe i will need some type of bank account. Are there restrictions on Arg. to US. money transactions? Someone please fill me in

 

[HenryNisental]

Te only way now is using a carrier pigeon!!.
Well, now the good news is that we have just elected a more liberal government, and soon this situation will change for the better. We think that soon we will join the normal countries of this region, just wait a bit!!

 

[jez]

1: As a foreigner (without residency?) you will have difficulty (/find it impossible) opening a back account in Argentina. If you can open one you will need to do it in person.
2: The Banco Central that controls foreign currently transactions will not allow transfers from a Argentine Bank account to a foreign country, I recently asked a guy at AFIP for the legal ways to get money out of the country and he suggest putting it in a rucksack and leaving via the airport and declaring the money on exit (assuming you can legally show how you earned it).

 

[ElQueso]

This is probably one of the worst times to try to get money out of Argentina. The outgoing administration had created a huge problem with national reserves to begin with, had controlled the ability to even have foreign currency here, much less let it leave the country - which it would have to do even if you were talking about pesos - to go to the US, the pesos leave here and are converted to dollars there that the bank here has to cover and they don't have much in the way of reserves - hence the currency restrictions the exiting administration put in place. The number one complaint (or at least one of them) of international businesses here, i believe, is the inability to get earnings out of the country.

Even before the currency restrictions, these things were not simple. As Jez mentioned, it used to be merely difficult to get a bank account here as a foreigner. When I first came here 9+ years ago, it was rumored that one could open a bank account without residency, but I was never able to until I had residency. Now, no way in a cold day in hell.

There are illicit ways to do these things, but they are costly. Right now, you may be looking at 6% or more for a "cueva" (ostensibly illegal money services) to send money out of here, and probably at a rate worse than 15 - 1 (the blue, or black market, rate currently - no way you'll even get within sight of the official rate). Or, you could find an expat or even a local who needs pesos here and has dollars outside of the country that they can wire to your bank account (which is sort of how the cuevas operate anyway, though that's a bit more complicated), which would get you out of that 6%+ fee but it's not easy to find such people on a consistent basis.

That doesn't count all of the tax liability costs that would be required to operate legally (according to an analysis not too long ago, you'd have to pay something like 105% in taxes - yep, you read that right - though no one actually does everything completely legal because of that), labor laws and other challenges if you are dealing with employees, and so on.

Even many big international companies have fled the scene in the last year or two. Again.

It is possible that things will change in the somewhat near future. The current administration is attempting to unravel a serious problem the previous administration left behind that is basically requiring that the current government continue the currency manipulations and restrictions (and continue with inflation of 30%+) or risk a very serious economic result in terms of letting the peso's value go free. If they are successful, we still don't know what things will look like as there are still not reserves, although the new government is working on loans from international entities.

But you will still have to deal with "normal" problems doing business here in the near term unless the new government is able to remove some of the taxes and other issues that prevent doing business on any kind of reasonable level here.

 

[ben]

The simplest way is the way most Argentines do it: the private sector. The really private sector, Argentina-style.

You find trustworthy people, give them money here (cash), they give you the money in the US. A couple of percent get stuck en route.

I can name you a couple of people who do this (via PM), including some known to members of this forum.

 

[wongjoh]

I work for MercadoLibre. Now, I understand your problem more generally as "I live in country X and want to do remote business in country Y, how do I get my money over from Y to X?"

It's not as easy as you may already guess, but here are some tips, specific to Argentina and MercadoLibre:
* Have money deposited into your MercadoPago account -- it's good for you and buyers -- and use that as your "bank"
* When you need to withdraw, withdraw to someone's Argentine bank account via their CBU -- it can be any account name (does not have to match yours) and it does not have to be the same each time
* Do whatever deal you have with that person, through legal (or not-so) means:
* Legal (or at most gray) => have that person/friend/relative/girlfriend/associate transfer out of their own USD account (I assume some expats here could do that); Or, depending on your timeline as things may get easier with the new President, have that person transfer those pesos to your USD account in the US directly.
* Not-so legal => read the other posts about cuevas, but your risk and choice. I don't actually know how this could possibly take place since it would require linking someone's bank account and I'm pretty sure any cueva is going to stay away from doing this, unless we're talking about real-estate-big money. Also, the first challenge would be to get the cash to start with.

More caveats:
* Whoever helps with the transfer will have to explain to their Argentine bank (not MercadoLibre) the flow of money into their account => this will be a request from UIF (anti-money laundering govt org) and therefore may incur a tax liability or worse. In other words, they will have to cover for you. This explains why the exchange rate is higher than blue
* Related to MercadoLibre, get someone you can trust to operate for you locally. I don't know what kind of business you have in mind, but "unfair advantages" often look suspicious, and can lead to competitor vendors to report your listings, etc., to MercadoLibre. It's MercadoLibre's duty to investigate all these reports to have a fair marketplace, but what can happen is that if there is no one to call (and btw, MercadoLibre Argentina is NOT going to call you in the US), then MercadoLibre will just suspend your account.

Sounds like you are still very early in your planning. Best of luck! if this gets serious, feel free to PM directly and I can offer some suggestions to minimize fraud, etc. (there will be plenty of chances for people to take advantage of you, since you are operating in a gray area).

PS> Try not to call MercadoLibre as "Argentina's eBay" -- it hurts my sensibilities, as we're so much better (really!)

 

[ElQueso]

I work for MercadoLibre. Now, I understand your problem more generally as "I live in country X and want to do remote business in country Y, how do I get my money over from Y to X?"

It's not as easy as you may already guess, but here are some tips, specific to Argentina and MercadoLibre:
* Have money deposited into your MercadoPago account -- it's good for you and buyers -- and use that as your "bank"
* When you need to withdraw, withdraw to someone's Argentine bank account via their CBU -- it can be any account name (does not have to match yours) and it does not have to be the same each time
* Do whatever deal you have with that person, through legal (or not-so) means:
* Legal (or at most gray) => have that person/friend/relative/girlfriend/associate transfer out of their own USD account (I assume some expats here could do that); Or, depending on your timeline as things may get easier with the new President, have that person transfer those pesos to your USD account in the US directly.
* Not-so legal => read the other posts about cuevas, but your risk and choice. I don't actually know how this could possibly take place since it would require linking someone's bank account and I'm pretty sure any cueva is going to stay away from doing this, unless we're talking about real-estate-big money. Also, the first challenge would be to get the cash to start with.

More caveats:
* Whoever helps with the transfer will have to explain to their Argentine bank (not MercadoLibre) the flow of money into their account => this will be a request from UIF (anti-money laundering govt org) and therefore may incur a tax liability or worse. In other words, they will have to cover for you. This explains why the exchange rate is higher than blue
* Related to MercadoLibre, get someone you can trust to operate for you locally. I don't know what kind of business you have in mind, but "unfair advantages" often look suspicious, and can lead to competitor vendors to report your listings, etc., to MercadoLibre. It's MercadoLibre's duty to investigate all these reports to have a fair marketplace, but what can happen is that if there is no one to call (and btw, MercadoLibre Argentina is NOT going to call you in the US), then MercadoLibre will just suspend your account.

Sounds like you are still very early in your planning. Best of luck! if this gets serious, feel free to PM directly and I can offer some suggestions to minimize fraud, etc. (there will be plenty of chances for people to take advantage of you, since you are operating in a gray area).

PS> Try not call MercadoLibre as "Argentina's eBay" -- it hurts my sensibilities, as we're so much better (really!)

One comment on the "not-so-legal" cueva aspect - I agree that cuevas will not access a bank account to withdraw funds and send onward. The OP would have to get his friend/acquaintance/manager that has the bank account where the money is being deposited by MercadoPago to withdraw the money in cash, and then would have to bring the money physically to a cueva to send it. And, as you mention, that person will still have to deal with UIF and possibly AFIP (not sure where UIF falls under as far as operations responsibility) as far as justifying where the money is coming from and going to. Talking to an accountant would probably resolve things legally, as far as the local business laws and taxes to be paid and all, under the local manager's name of course.

Once all that money was claimed legally by the local "manager" with the bank account, sending the money outside the country via a cueva, while it may be illegal from that aspect currently, at least it's clean, legal money as far as the taxing authorities go.

 

[steveinbsas]

It's also important to know that once you have a combined total of five sales and/or purchases in any given month that are in excess of $4999,99 pesos, AFIP must be "notified" and they will have to be paid something. I'm not sure how much, but it's certainly nowhere near 105%. Perhaps its just collecting IVA (which would be 21% of the sales price).

If this business involves selling a product that is already in Argentina perhaps a "partner" who has residency and a bank account, and even an established reputation on mercado libre might be desirable, especially if the business involves delivery or any other form of customer service within Argentina. If that individual also has income in the US and a US bank account it all might work out nicely.

PS: There is one member of this forum who has a "100% positive" rating on MercadoLibre with almost 22,000 positive ratings.

That's THE BOOK CELLAR. I recently bought twenty books from Daniel. The selection was very good and the prices and service were fantastic!!!

Here a list of his current inventory of books in English: http://listado.merca...p_thebookcellar

He doesn't have a storefront but it's possible to see the books at an apartment in Belgrano with a day's advance notice.