US College vs. UBA

[BienTeVeo]

Hi,

Are there any permanent residents out there with a son or daughter in the middle of the college application process? If so, has the idea of going to UBA (Filo) instead of "college" in the US come up for anyone? We're weighing the relative merits around here.

Thanks.

 

[Montauk_Project]

I didn´t go to the UBA full time but I audited a course there in 2004 and know a lot of people who studied there.
I would recommend it--it is free and very prestigious. If you want to go to grad school at an Ivy they only accept graduates from UBA and University of Cordoba (at least it was this way in 2003, you should check).
However, you and your son/daughter need to be prepared that the expectations for a University "experience" are quite different at UBA than at any US college. First, many people fail out of the UBA. Second, no one holds your hand or helps you. You are responsible for your own education--I met one guy who lost his report card and the school also lost his report card. He had to do over two years! Student politics plays a large role. Expect the degree to take longer to get, but also it is normal to work during that time.
Compared to a US college experience, he or she will be in classes with a wide range of ages (I think this is positive).
He or she will also have to pick a major from the outset, or after completing the CBC.
I would recommend choosing another campus than Puan (when I was there it was really falling apart) and also as you only study classes in your subject area after CBC, I would suggest something a bit more practical, maybe that leads to a professional degree. Even in those cases, they are not professional schools and put a lot of emphasis on theory--the economics school is of course more conservative than Puan, but nothing like studying econ in the US.
The UBA is one of the hidden gems of Argentina.
On a side note, I went to Columbia in New York city. I LOVED it. Luckily it cost about half of what it does now (and I´m class of '02!!) and graduated with very little debt. As much as I loved it, I could not recommend getting into debt to go there. It has gotten me 0 jobs, connections, etc (it gets a wow factor every once in a while, especially amongst historians when I tell them who my professors were).
Also, you are so over protected at a US college--for four years you just study, party and all of your bills are paid for and everything is laid out for you. It took my 4 years to learn how to live on my own and learn to emotionally deal with the shit that is normal life. I feel that a school like UBA not only teaches you academics, but how to deal with the mess that is life, where things don´t always go that way. And I also like that if you are going to study philosophy, the campus itself is very poor, so you can get used to your future life of poverty. Seriously! That was another shock after Columbia--realizing that the jobs I wanted couldn´t support that level of luxury.
If UBA doesn´t work out, consider schools in Canada or the UK that are cheaper than the US. $50k USD per years seems INSANE to me. With the job market soft, you need to save money to get started in life now.

 

[PhilipDT]

If you want to go to grad school at an Ivy they only accept graduates from UBA and University of Cordoba

Thats not true. My old roomates best friend graduated from di tella in the mid 2000 and got his MBA from Harvard

 

[volver]

Hi! I´m argentine and I graduated from UBA in 06 (school of econ). Afterwards I went to grad school in Sweden and worked in several countries, including three years at the World Bank in Washington DC. My advice: Do NOT send your children to UBA!!!

UBA has a good reputation. True. But I ALWAYS felt behind my colleagues from Yale, Harvard, Columbia and all the fancy liberal schools such as Amherst, Oberlin, Wellesley. There is no way to compare our survival university experience (where we sometimes sit on the floor because the classroom is too crowded, where professors are always on strike, etc etc) with the priceless experience of having mentors who encourage critical thinking and who are actually interested in you...

I met many young Americans who owed hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time they were done with their bachelors. Both of my degrees were 100% free -in fact, Sweden paid me to study- so I can´t imagine how all that debt must feel....By the time I was done with school, I had actually saved some money.

But: UBA will take at least 2 more years than any school in America. We usually work throughout our studies and get a lot of relevant work experience, so I wouldn´t say it´s wasted time. But if your child wants to study philosophy, jobs will probably not be very related to his degree.

If you´re seriously considering Argentina, take a look at private unis too: San Andres and Di Tella are the best for Econ - these kids are all over the world doing phds in top schools, their professors have excellent networks, etc. I think San Salvador is good for philosophy, not sure.

Hope this helps and good luck with your decision! Do not hesitate to ask me more about UBA - I will do my best to provide an unbiased opinion.

Hi,

Are there any permanent residents out there with a son or daughter in the middle of the college application process? If so, has the idea of going to UBA (Filo) instead of "college" in the US come up for anyone? We're weighing the relative merits around here.

Thanks.

 

[expatinowncountry]

Hi! I´m argentine and I graduated from UBA in 06 (school of econ). Afterwards I went to grad school in Sweden and worked in several countries, including three years at the World Bank in Washington DC. My advice: Do NOT send your children to UBA!!!

UBA has a good reputation. True. But I ALWAYS felt behind my colleagues from Yale, Harvard, Columbia and all the fancy liberal schools such as Amherst, Oberlin, Wellesley. There is no way to compare our survival university experience (where we sometimes sit on the floor because the classroom is too crowded, where professors are always on strike, etc etc) with the priceless experience of having mentors who encourage critical thinking and who are actually interested in you...

I met many young Americans who owed hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time they were done with their bachelors. Both of my degrees were 100% free -in fact, Sweden paid me to study- so I can´t imagine how all that debt must feel....By the time I was done with school, I had actually saved some money.

But: UBA will take at least 2 more years than any school in America. We usually work throughout our studies and get a lot of relevant work experience, so I wouldn´t say it´s wasted time. But if your child wants to study philosophy, jobs will probably not be very related to his degree.

If you´re seriously considering Argentina, take a look at private unis too: San Andres and Di Tella are the best for Econ - these kids are all over the world doing phds in top schools, their professors have excellent networks, etc. I think San Salvador is good for philosophy, not sure.

Hope this helps and good luck with your decision! Do not hesitate to ask me more about UBA - I will do my best to provide an unbiased opinion.

I respect your opinion but I have to say that my experience was very different. I did my econ undergraduate at UBA (many years before you) and my PhD at an Ivy League and I never thought I was lagging behind any of my colleagues. Actually, the kids who were coming from undergraduate institutions in the States were the ones who struggled the most. Of the 3 people who left the program, two were Americans. I think the gap between undergraduate and graduate studies is huge in the States and not everyone can cross that gap succesfully. You may also know that a bachelor degree in the States is useless while an undergraduate here (even if it takes you two more years) makes you a professional who can actually work. How many courses you took in economics at UBA? Around 20... how many an American undergraduate takes to have a major in economics? 6? 7?
In any case, you have a very good point, the student experience is totally different. In the States you are a full time student who probably lives in the cocoon of a campus so you have all the time of the world to work in your readings (and party hard) and your professors are there for you. At UBA you study, work, deal with the administration, etc and the professors are there only part time. So they are two very different experiences and they are hard to compare.
Di Tella, San Andres? Excellent professors and SPOILED disrespectful kids (on average). Some of them very smart. BTW, I was surprised to read that Di Tella and San Andres kids are all over the place and you failled to acknowledge that a lot are also from the public universities here. And a lot of your San Andres/Di Tella did only their master there while they have done the undergraduate studies at UBA for instance. At my Ivy League, there were 5 Argentine in econ: 2 from UBA, 2 from La Plata, and 1 from Di Tella. And all the Argentine I met in Romance Studies (literature) were from UBA.
El Salvador? Very bad students on average and peer learning is very important at University.

Just to be clear, I am not saying UBA could compare to any top 50/100 university in the States. If your choice is between Princeton and UBA and you can afford Princeton, please send them there. But if your choice is so so College in the States, I would consider UBA. If your choice is UBA vs El Salvador... UBA. If UBA vs Di Tella, I will think about it but still I will personaly choose UBA.

 

[Supercharged]

I am appalled to read such statements without real formal and informal knowledge of the higher education system. The university of Buenos Aires is one of the premiere universities in Latin America and the world in many fields and with some of the best schools (sorry I am doing some work at a private but I have to admit the truth). The UBA has produced three Noble prizes and there is a constant influx of major researchers from around the world. I have been in international higher ed for more than 25 years, have done extensive research on international ed systems and my PhD is in Internationale Development Ed and Admin. and all of my higher is from UK and US...and yet lots to learn!! Before throwing those opinions please do your research!!! and stop being sold by small private US schools that make millions out of selling ed instead of creating knowledge.

I prefer not to keep typing because I do not want to put any university down. Even Ivy Leagues have some schools that are shaky. Not all schools are the same in one university. Generalizations are fatal in higher ed thus the need for a terminal degree from a specialized school in the field.

 

[katti]

Hi,

Are there any permanent residents out there with a son or daughter in the middle of the college application process? If so, has the idea of going to UBA (Filo) instead of "college" in the US come up for anyone? We're weighing the relative merits around here.

Thanks.

I think it all depends on what he or she wants to study and where he or she wants to work afterwards...

 

[Ashley]

I went to three universities: undergraduate degree in London, undergraduate program in San Andres and a post-grad at UBA (Puan)
For me, the University of London was by far superior. I got a great level of education, had excellent, dedicated professors and was able to get my degree in a timely and organised fashion (in 4 years) whilst working part-time. My experience of San Andres wasn't great. The professors were good but the general level was far below that of my peers in London (which isn't surprising really as there is no minimum standard here to meet in order to qualify to get into a uni. If you have the cash, you get in). In the UK (and to an extent, the states), good universities can pick and choose.
As for UBA, I think if you can stick with it and you are not under so much pressure to work, you can do really well. The cbc acts as a filter and I think that by the time you get to your final 2/3 years, the academic level of your peers has evened out. There are issues with strikes and politics but I think you come out with a competitive education. I certainly found the postgrad very challenging and not really compatible with having a career simultaneously.
As for "level", I think UBA is currently 170-something on the world rankings. Most of the higher ranking uni's are in the states. Of course, I'm sure there are factors such as funding, research, etc that go a long way to calculating those rankings and its not just based on academic level.

 

[Montauk_Project]

First, I stand corrected if you can do grad work in Ivys with a degree from Di Tella. I think you also need to see what your child wants to do. If he or she has been raised in Argentina for many years and plans on staying, I would not hesitate are recommend UBA. If his or her Spanish is shaky and wants to eventually move back to the states, I would recommend UBA OR an English speaking university in the UK or Canada (or one of the few low cost options in the US)--I think the prices for degrees in the states are overvalued and there will be a "crash" in their value. Even an Ivy degree is not a good investment for most.
If he or she goes to the UBA, see if he or she can study abroad (or do it independently, one advantage of the UBA is that you can take time off) for a year in an English speaking environment so he or she also learns academic English. That would be the best of both worlds.

 

[BienTeVeo]

Thanks for all the very thoughtful responses.

The plan would be CBC (sexto año), then UBA (probably Letras), then graduate school in the US. We're talking about a highly motivated, disciplined, adventurous, and intelligent student. We know many people in academia (both public and private). All agree that this kind of student can still get a top-notch education at UBA. The level is very high.

The target schools in the US range from small private colleges in the NE (Smith, Middlebury) to Ivies. In other words (responding to expatintownandcountry), we're not talking about so-so colleges.

My concerns about the UBA plan, in no particular order:

1. Here in Argentina (like most places in the world) students must choose a "carrera" from the get-go. For some (those who know they want to be MDs, for example), this makes sense. But for others (those who are still deciding what they want to do with their lives), getting locked in at age 18 or 19 seems a shame.

2. We are a binational family. After many years living in BA, I'd like to restore the balance back toward the USA - not only for obvious family and cultural reasons, but also because I'm very pessimistic about the way things are going in Argentina.

3. As Volver mentioned, the kind of education one gets at UBA is quite different that what one would get at a small liberal arts school in Massachussets, for example - not necessarily better or worse, but different in terms of class-size, access to faculty, physical plant, location, study-abroad opportunities, alumni-network, etc. I also happen to think there's something to be said for the campus experience, living with one's peers, learning from each other.

So the issues go beyond a comparison based purely on academics. In other words, it's complicated.