Videla V. Franco. Dictator Thunderdome!

[EdRooney]

Hey BAexers!

We just got back from a couple months in Spain and I hope to be starting a few threads on some of the comparisons between here and there to get your collective pearls of wisdom.

First off the bat is this pic below of a poster we saw splattered everywhere in Madrid. (Trans: The left only talks, WE DID IT. For education, public health, public housing and social security)


Mrs EdRooney axed the astute question: Can you imagine how this would go over in BA if you replaced Franco's mug with Videla's? It's kind of apples to oranges, but since you are the smartest and best-looking people we know, I'd love to get your thoughts on how the two populations view their respective pasts.

Besos!

Ed

 

[camberiu]

Videla was a creature very uniquely Argentinian. The level of brutality he exerted and the Argentinian overall tolerance towards it were pretty remarkable. I don't think even Pinochet was a brutal as him. He certainly made the Brazilian military rulers of the time seem like "nice guys". How many people in Argentina disappeared under him? Something like 30 thousand? Just to give you an idea of scale, in Brazil, during the entire 1964-1985 military rule, about 475 people "disappeared" and even then, by 1974, the moderate faction of the Brazilian armed forces were already moving in and neutralizing the hard liners because they though they were being too tyrannical.

 

[Matiasba]

Franco is in some ways similar to Pinochet. Their dictatorships were succesful from the economic point of view. Thats why you still have some chileans and spaniards happy with them. Videla tried to do the exact same thing here, but corruption and other factors turned into a mess. Total failure, devaluation, financial crisis, which they tried to covered with a war. The three dictators, since they combated against communism, had the explicit support of the US.

 

[germano]

Franco is in some ways similar to Pinochet. Their dictatorships were succesful from the economic point of view. Thats why you still have some chileans and spaniards happy with them. Videla tried to do the exact same thing here, but corruption and other factors turned into a mess. Total failure, devaluation, financial crisis, which they tried to covered with a war. The three dictators, since they combated against communism, had the explicit support of the US.

Good point! I remember people from Spain - who were definitely not right wing - pointing out things that were better under Franco. The same in Chile with people talking about Pinochet. But I have never heard any of my contacts here (left or right) talking in a positive way about Videla.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Franco is in some ways similar to Pinochet. Their dictatorships were succesful from the economic point of view. Thats why you still have some chileans and spaniards happy with them. Videla tried to do the exact same thing here, but corruption and other factors turned into a mess. Total failure, devaluation, financial crisis, which they tried to covered with a war. The three dictators, since they combated against communism, had the explicit support of the US.

Unlike Videla, Franco and Pinochet were competent enough to remain in power. There's no excuse for them, since all of them were vicious, but the the Spaniard and the Chilean managed to get by on more than just violence or the threat of it.

 

[Gringoboy]

Surely the biggest difference is that Argentina overturned the amnesty, quite rightly, and Spain hasn't as far as I know.
Baltasar Garzon anyone?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Surely the biggest difference is that Argentina overturned the amnesty, quite rightly, and Spain hasn't as far as I know.
Baltasar Garzon anyone?

Chile has moved hesitantly in that direction, but most of the underlings - i.e. almost everybody below Pinochet - has gotten off pretty easy. A handful of his civilian supporters have apologized, but not presidential candidate Evelyn Matthei, the daughter of one of Pinocho's junta members.

 

[Gringoboy]

And let's not forget that pig, Masera.
I have a tale to tell about him.

 

[ARbound]

but not presidential candidate Evelyn Matthei, the daughter of one of Pinocho's junta members.

She's a real piece of work. The other day I was reading that she had a semi-melt dramatic outburst when she
said "The election is between Michelle Bachelet and I". Such entitlement is outpaced only by the fact she doesn't
see a problem with her being the child and beneficiary of the Junta.

All polls thankfully show that Bachelet is likely going to sweep the floor with Matthei, and in 4 years if she does indeed
become President I think there's a good chance Chile could become unquestioned developed country.

 

[EdRooney]

There is a difference in this regard between Pinochet's Chile and Francos Spain. Fascism was a sort of far right concession to early 20th century socialism. As the poster above shows, as abhorrent as they are, they do generally believe in the state providing housing, health care, retirement, etc. Meanwhile the goal of the Pinochet govt was precisely to deny the Chilean people these things, and the result has been that while Spain has public services and a considerable social safety net (now being dismantled, 1st by the liberal PSOE and then by the conservative PP), Chile has none. This is why Chile remains a vastly unequal society with terrible wealth distribution.

As Bachelet's 1st mandate showed, there are deeper structural problems that will take more political will to change than she mustered the first time.