Want to expat! Hungry for knowledge

[tangobob]

I'm fleeing my god damned homeland, do any of you understand that? Let me state it again if it's not clear enough... Whether you agree or not I'm abandoning my homeland out of fear of my oppressive, police-state government. Our rights are all being violated now, and in the future my friends and family are all going to be dragged to concentration camps and killed, but as long as you all had a good laugh! Feel good about yourselves? Well it should be you in the camps, you don't deserve to live in Argentina. Obviously there's no shortage of disrepectful losers in Argentina, as anywhere else in the world.
I would "advise" you individuals to go back to trolling x-box live and leave the serious discussion of immigration to the adults, as most of you don't seem to be able to make cogent arguments anyway. I hope the helpful veterans here have made note of your disrespectful, insensitive and insulting behavior.

You asked in another post What brought people here? That is the crucial difference. To be attracted here rather than driven out. Those who run away will always in the end be caught.
I am here only temporary as I work in The UK, my advice "never burn your bridges" Heaven can turn to hell after the smallest of events.
As for prices, as someone who travels over from Europe, I agree that in the past people complained of prices here based on what they were at home when they left. This is no longer the case, Buenos Aires is now easily as expensive as London. That being said, if you want to live cheaply you still can, basics are still relatively cheap. Look for the chinos who operate like giant chains and keep their prices low.
Eating out is now (for me anyway) almost un affordable.
As for crime, well my take is; walk around like you own the place, but in a quiet way. Don't display your Rolex and fat wallet to the world, keep your hand on your wallet and just take care.

 

[jb5]

Here are some London averages:

Average Cost of Accommodation in London

Flat-Share Rental per month One Bedroom Flat Rental per month
East London £290 - £390 (single), £430 - £600 (double) East London £650 - £750
West London £280 - £430 (single), £459 - £690 (double) West London £700 - £800
South London £280 - £500 (single), £350 - £650 (double) South London £600 - £700
North London £300 -£400 (single), £430 - £550 (double) North London £650 - £750

UK cost of Food & Drink

Average weekly grocery bill (including food, basic laundry and toiletry items for 2 people) £60
Average pub meal £6 - £10
Average restaurant meal £12 - £20
Pint of beer £2.50 - £3
Average bottle of wine £10
Average meal for two in mid-priced restaurant £40

UK cost of Transportation

Weekly Zone 1-6 Travelcard £41
Monthly Zone 1-2 Travelcard £86
Train trip to Edinburgh £110 (standard single)
Train trip to Cambridge / Brighton £17 - £20 (single)
Avg mid-sized car rental for a weekend £70
Return budget flight to Spain £120 - £150 (budget carrier)
Eurostar return ticket to Paris £125 (standard class)
Return flight to Ireland £50 - £60 (budget carrier)

UK cost of Entertainment

Movie £7-£10
West End Theatre £25+
Club/Pub Entry £5 - £20
Live music/concerts £10+
Chart CDs £8 - £12
New release DVD rental £3.50

Are these really BA prices?

 

[citygirl]

My notes are in blue. With the exception of train travel, yes, the prices in London you posted are about equivalent to here. And people are hardly earning the same kind of salaries here which makes it even more insane when you think about it. They're almost identical in pound/pound cost but they're earning 6x less.

Here are some London averages:

Average Cost of Accommodation in London

Flat-Share Rental per month One Bedroom Flat Rental per month
East London £290 - £390 (single), £430 - £600 (double) East London £650 - £750
West London £280 - £430 (single), £459 - £690 (double) West London £700 - £800
South London £280 - £500 (single), £350 - £650 (double) South London £600 - £700
North London £300 -£400 (single), £430 - £550 (double) North London £650 - £750

Real Estate: I'm not sure exactly how to read the chart you posted (it seems to range from 280-700 pounds). An average 1 BR furnished apt here would be around 4000 pesos/600 pounds). For a bedroom in a shared, not-great apt, it would probably be between 1500 and 2000 pesos. Unfurnished 1 BR with guarantia seem to be starting around 1600 pesos for not great places and lots in the 3000 peso range plus expensas. I would also bet it's cheaper to furnish at apt in London than it is here.

UK cost of Food & Drink

Average weekly grocery bill (including food, basic laundry and toiletry items for 2 people) £60 - I spend more that 400 pesos a week on groceries for 2 people
Average pub meal £6 - £10 Not so much "pub meals here" but yes, a small personal pizza and a soda is around the same - 40-50 pesos
Average restaurant meal £12 - £20 Minimum of 60 pesos (10 pounds) a person, usually more.
Pint of beer £2.50 - £3 The same- think it's usually around 18 pesos for a pint of Warsteiner
Average bottle of wine £10 Average as in "good average" - I pay about 50 pesos for a solid bottle of wine. 100+ for better wines. Slightly less for a decent but not good bottle - about 35-40.
Average meal for two in mid-priced restaurant £40 As I mentioned, it's usually around 250 pesos (so about the same) for dinner in a mid-priced restaurant like Kansas.


UK cost of Transportation

Weekly Zone 1-6 Travelcard £41 cheaper here
Monthly Zone 1-2 Travelcard £86 - ditto
Train trip to Edinburgh £110 (standard single) ditto
Train trip to Cambridge / Brighton £17 - £20 (single) ditto
Avg mid-sized car rental for a weekend £70 More expensive here .
Return budget flight to Spain £120 - £150 (budget carrier) Way more expensive here.
Eurostar return ticket to Paris £125 (standard class) We don't have same class of train here so apples to oranges.
Return flight to Ireland £50 - £60 (budget carrier) Way more expensive here
Train travel is definitely cheaper here. Flights are much cheaper in Europe.


UK cost of Entertainment

Movie £7-£10 Hoys charges between 35 and 38 pesos for a movie so a bit less here.
West End Theatre £25+ Just checked on ticketek - depends on the play. I saw starting prices as low as 70 pesos up to starting prices of 150 pesos
Club/Pub Entry £5 - £20 - Don't usually pay but yes, I think lots of places are around 25 or 30 pesos to get in (low end) and can be more. To be fair, that usually gets you a drink voucher.
Live music/concerts £10+ Have you been to concerts here? For decent tickets, you're looking at MUCH more, usually at least 400 pesos a person.
Chart CDs £8 - £12 No idea - do people still buy CDs?
New release DVD rental £3.50 Again, no idea on this one.

Are these really BA prices?

Yes - they are!

 

[jb5]

Those are not prices for furnished apartments, they are unfurnished local apartments. As I see it, rent is considerably cheaper here. And non processed food is too. Than add in the low transportation and the much lower utility costs which are not shown on the chart. Not to mention cheaper beer and wine. These are the key expenses for most.

IMO, saying the cost of living is the same in London is way off.

 

[citygirl]

1 BR unfurnished apt here - not fancy - 3000 pesos. Or around 450 pounds. pretty much right in the range of prices in London you posted. It is cheaper but I wouldn't say it's cheaper by a HUGE amount. (to be fair, I don't think London is that expensive when we're talking about rent, not like say NYC. ) However if you compare the percentage of salary required to rent an apt in London vs here - it's much higher here. If your average professional salary is probably around 6000 pesos and you're spending half of it on rent for a 1 br- there is an issue. Shall we discuss the price of cars? I'm looking at a Honda City - cheapest line that HOnda makes - and the car is 27,000 USD That's more than most people's annual salary.

Great that tomatoes are cheaper here. Yes, I agree veggies are less expensive here (although not much else food-wise is for me). Decent wine is less expensive. Train travel definitely. Of course there are bargains here still, especially if you have a salary in euros/dollars/pounds. Most here don't. And again, on your list - I spend just as much on many of the items as the prices you posted. And since people here don't earn in pounds, effectively they're spending 6x the amount that people in London are for the same services/goods.

 

[MizzMarr]

Just to chime in on the rent prices, I'm renting a pretty decent 1 bedroom (unfurnished, 2yr contract) apartment with a 30m2 patio as well. that initially went for 1800 pesos + building expenses (another ~200-300/mo) and is up to 2000 pesos for the second year. It's in Caballito (a nice but non-touristy neighborhood that is well conntected to the city and just steps from the subte. Looking around this year for a new place I find that anything remotely comparable has gone way up--probably more in line with Citygirl's initial estimate of 3000. It's all about the inflation.

Fruits and veggies are probably cheaper than in London, and I think that decent wines can be found for much less than quoted, too, but Citygirl's main point is that the average income here is much, MUCH lower than in London (or San Francisco/NY, any other the other cities that are usually dragged into these conversations) so that must be taken into account. London would probably feel a lot more expensive on an Argentine salary, that's for sure, but the prices as outlined really aren't too far off.

 

[jb5]

I think London is much more expensive (rental prices on the list seem low to me), but I appreciate that Argentine salaries are much lower.

The bottom line is that it's foolish to come here seeking a decent lifestyle as an expat who will make pesos. But if you make Dollars or Euro, and are paid American or European salaries, you can live for much less than in major cities on those continents. You'll save on housing, high end restaurant meals, high end wine, services like household/childcare help and more.

Non BA Argentina is considerably cheaper. Even in Mendoza a decent house can be rented for 1500 pesos. You can eat cheaply if you don't eat out. I would encourage young expats without financial resources to avoid Baires and look to Rosario, cordoba and Mendoza. Mendoza probably being best if you speak both Spanish and English as the wine industry provides jobs. They're seasonal though.

 

[Hache]

Man, what a thread! I'm still dizzy...

Kevin, after reading most of your posts and seeing how young you are, I think you should definitely come down. So much for your research. The real answers are here. It can't be so harmful at your age. Should things go wrong, should you find Argentina not to be what you expect, should (long etc.), you can always pack up and leave. You got most of your life still ahead of you. I really think you have much more to gain than to lose, and as far as experience is concerned, you'll get some for sure.

May you find your journey a fruitful one.

 

[Feminale]

Gosh, The New World Order..eh? As a fellow yanqui who has lived and organized in the US, and connected with activists in Argentina, it sounds to me like you are the definition of expat- only concerned for yourself.
At least one less conspiracy theorist here at home.
They have been so helpful since Obama's election! What with the town hall screaming and gun toting and shootings and all..

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[zingara]

I am very curious about your political views in the US.
Are you a libertarian?
I don't think you are a liberal.
Do you mind sharing?