Warren Buffet on the inequities of us tax policy

[captainmcd]

Sorry, but if you have an adjusted gross income in excess of 250K (for a small businessman that is an income of 250 net of business overhead/ expenses) I don't have a lot of sympathy for you just because your tax burden is raised 1 or 2 %. Income tax rates are much lower now than they have been since before WWII. Since the Eisenhower admin when top rates were around 90%, rates have been lowered periodically including as recently as during the admin of incompetent and corrupt asshole Bush 2. Consequently, your kvetching is ill-considred. You and those earning above 250K should consider themselves fortunate to live in a country where a combination of hard work and intelligence (or luck or being born with a silver spoon) enables them to acquire the standard of living that kind of income allows.
Don't bitch about paying some more taxes when your country needs to raise money to stay afloat. It's only fair the revenue should come from those at the top of the ladder. Besides, Obama's tax proposals fall heaviest on those earning more than 1 million. That is not unjust way to increase govt revenue when the budget is in desperate need of repair.

There are some problems I have with this logic.
1. Our problem is a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Even if you increased the tax rate on the wealthiest one percent to a maximum 100% rate, confiscating their entire income, you would not be able to cover the budget shortfall. We all need to suffer, but that suffering will have to come at everyone's expense, and that means later retirements, reduced benefits, cuts in all sorts of corporate subsidies, and stricter eligibility requirements for getting those benefits.
2. When our president singles out me as not paying my fair share, when in fact about half of our population pays NO income tax, that adds insult to injury.

As an S corp. in the US your corporation income goes into your personal adjusted gross income, you pay taxes on it whether or not you spend it. Wartren Buffet's main source of income is from capital gains, and is taxed at a lower rate than most small business in the U.S.

 

[scarface]

There are some problems I have with this logic.
1. Our problem is a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Even if you increased the tax rate on the wealthiest one percent to a maximum 100% rate, confiscating their entire income, you would not be able to cover the budget shortfall. We all need to suffer, but that suffering will have to come at everyone's expense, and that means later retirements, reduced benefits, cuts in all sorts of corporate subsidies, and stricter eligibility requirements for getting those benefits.
2. When our president singles out me as not paying my fair share, when in fact about half of our population pays NO income tax, that adds insult to injury.

As an S corp. in the US your corporation income goes into your personal adjusted gross income, you pay taxes on it whether or not you spend it. Wartren Buffet's main source of income is from capital gains, and is taxed at a lower rate than most small business in the U.S.

As you were advised earlier ( http://baexpats.org/world-politics/18384-gates-g20-summit-proposes-robin-hood-tax-2.html#post135910 it is both a revenue and a spending problem (which you reply seems to acknowledge). I don't disagree with you that some of the cuts in spending will come from the items you listed as mentioned in the Samuelson piece from Atlantic Monthly. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ht_111957.html

You are not being singled out. All individuals earning in excess of 250K per year are being called upon to pay a little more - on the order of 1 or 2% more for someone earning 250K. Don't feel insulted or injured. Feel proud that you have been able to achieve a measure of success that allows you an income in the top few percentile of US society. Feel proud to repay some slightly larger portion of your income to help your country survive a budget crisis created by 8 years of a horriblly bellicose and incompetent administration. After all, it was the country that provided the framework/infrastructure that allowed you to get where you are. That's not to denigrate your hard work and skill, but there a lot of places in this world where that hard work and skill wouldn't have resulted in the same level of success and wealth.

Don't be embittered that the unemployed or low earning people aren't being asked to give more. Count your blessings. That is not to say entitlements are not among the expenditures to be reexamined and adjusted downward in order to eliminate waste and unfairness.

It's your decision how to organize your business. There are a lot of benefits to an S corp. Moreover, its the corp's net income that goes into your personal AGI, right? So, where's the unfairness?

 

[captainmcd]

It was my hope to sometime be able to get enough in my business account to make a down payment so that I could own, rather than lease a property, allowing me to expand and of course employ more people, but every three months I must take about half of my account to make the income tax estimated payments. It seems like I am a dog chasing its tail.
I do feel blessed to have been successful, and I spend at least several moths a year volunteering full time to help the poor. I am not just some greedy rich capitalistic pig. I live in a modest house in a minority neighborhood and drive a six year old Honda Civic. I really don't feel it is fair when many people I know live more lavishly than me and qualify for medicaid and disability paymlents. Our tax system is unfar.

 

[TheBlackHand]

What is a " minority " neighborhood ? I've never heard of that. Do you mean to say you live with " colored " people ?

I am not just some greedy rich capitalistic pig. I live in a modest house in a minority neighborhood

 

[captainmcd]

What is a " minority " neighborhood ? I've never heard of that. Do you mean to say you live with " colored " people ?

Yassah boss. I cannst afford to live in Sugah Land with dem white folks.
So now I am a racist white capitalistic pig! But at least I pay my own way, pay my taxes, give a good percentage of my time to help the poor, and don't ask the givernment to take stuff from others and give to me.

Any time the government gets involved in social engineering there is a price to pay, and many unintended consequences. When the government starts handing out money it collected, there are a bunch of people out there who will figure out a way to get their hands on it. I think I can spend my money in ways that will help others and myself a lot better than bureaucrats in Washington can.

 

[scarface]

It was my hope to sometime be able to get enough in my business account to make a down payment so that I could own, rather than lease a property, allowing me to expand and of course employ more people, but every three months I must take about half of my account to make the income tax estimated payments. It seems like I am a dog chasing its tail.
I do feel blessed to have been successful, and I spend at least several moths a year volunteering full time to help the poor. I am not just some greedy rich capitalistic pig. I live in a modest house in a minority neighborhood and drive a six year old Honda Civic.

About a year ago Obama was proposing to increase rates on those earning in excess of 250K/year. More recently he has proposed a surcharge on those earning more than a million/yr. Not sure if his current proposal still includes increases at the 250K level and above. In either case if you are currently one of those high earners, frankly I wonder why you appear to be living the life style of someone earning a lot less. Of course, that assumes your minority neighborhoood is not the European section of Beverly Hills and your used Honda is not an Acura NSX.

I really don't feel it is fair when many people I know live more lavishly than me and qualify for medicaid and disability paymlents.

Can you identify with some greater detail the circumstances of those who you say are living more lavish life styles, but who nevertheless qualify for medicaid and disability payments? Even though you do not appear to live like someone earing over 250K/yr, I still question whether those who can qualify for medicaid or disability payments can really be living more lavishly than you. Something doesn't add up.

Our tax system is unfar.

I agree with you. The very rich, those 1%ers in particular, are not taxed enough.

p.s. There's no need to give credibility to untelligible posts by answering them. They are best ignored.

 

[captainmcd]

Scarface, You seem to believe that you can build yourself up by tearing down others, and that by making the rich poor you can somehow make the poor rich. My lifestyle is my choice, I believe I get better value for money by driving an old car, and living in a smaller house than I can afford. Perhaps the problem you have with my income figures is that I have three college students in the family, and I believe that as a responsible parent I should educate them so that they, too, can become productive citizens of the world. I do not ask others to provide this service, but pay for it myself. If Warren Buffet wants to give his wealth to the government so that they can spend it, I am sure they would welcome his donation. I can think of many other organizations that could spend the money far more wisely. I think in reality he is only trying to curry political favor and recieve more from the government than he gives.
As for those "poor" folks who get medicaid and food stamps, I know of one who is an attorney and lives in a $500,000 house in a "majority" neighborhood who studies the laws and figures out how he can qualify for those benefits.

 

[scarface]

Scarface, You seem to believe that you can build yourself up by tearing down others, and that by making the rich poor you can somehow make the poor rich.

Not sure why you say this. I don't think anything I said was in the nature of tearing down others including you. I certainly didn't propose to make the poor rich by making the rich poor. It seems like you are grossly mischaracterizing my post in order to shoot it/me down.
Be realistic. A 1 or 2 % increase in the tax of someone earning over 250K, much less 1,000,000, per year is not going to make them poor. And the current level of entitlements , e.g., medicaid, food stamps, unemployment and disability insurance benefits, subsidized housing, etc are not normally indicia of lavish or rich living. Those who earn over 250K a year are generally living a hell of a lot better than those receiving entitlements.

My lifestyle is my choice, I believe I get better value for money by driving an old car, and living in a smaller house than I can afford. Perhaps the problem you have with my income figures is that I have three college students in the family, and I believe that as a responsible parent I should educate them so that they, too, can become productive citizens of the world. I do not ask others to provide this service, but pay for it myself.

Now I can better understand your life style choices. I salute you. You are a principled person. I just believe you need to rethink your ideas about tax fairness.

If Warren Buffet wants to give his wealth to the government so that they can spend it, I am sure they would welcome his donation. I can think of many other organizations that could spend the money far more wisely. I think in reality he is only trying to curry political favor and recieve more from the government than he gives.

Are you aware that Buffet has irrevocably donated 34 billion dollars, as in $34,000,000,000 to the Bill and Mary Gates charitable fund? I think his bona fides are pretty well established, don't you?

As for those "poor" folks who get medicaid and food stamps, I know of one who is an attorney and lives in a $500,000 house in a "majority" neighborhood who studies the laws and figures out how he can qualify for those benefits.

Exactly what benefits and manipulations are you talking about? Come on, even if what you say is true (and frankly I doubt it- exactly what benefits) one law bending attorney proves nothing about the injustice of entitlement programs.
p.s If I had to pay tuition for 3 kids I might be pissed off about a small tax increase too, but it would be shortsighted on my part. But just think, you won't have to rely on social security when you get old. The kids should be paying off dividends.

 

[captainmcd]

p.s If I had to pay tuition for 3 kids I might be pissed off about a small tax increase too, but it would be shortsighted on my part. But just think, you won't have to rely on social security when you get old. The kids should be paying off dividends.

I can only hope. I am old already, but they will probably send me to a nursing home when I can no longer work

 

[TheBlackHand]

Let's just hope it's not a " minority " nursing home.

I can only hope. I am old already, but they will probably send me to a nursing home when I can no longer work