we might transfer to BA but need advise ... PLEASE !!

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HDM

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Having lived in Cape Town as well as Pretoria within the last 6 years, I would say that Buenos Aires is a lot closer to Jo-Burg than it is to Cape Town. There are really nice and exclusive neighborhoods in Jo-Burg, but would you want to move there?
 

Dudester

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Aw man, compare the crime in Jo'burg to BA. Jo'burg crime is just totally out of control. I was in SA for a month in 1984 and even though it's a beautiful country (and of course was much safer in 1984 but that's because...well we know what was going on back then - making no judgements here) what kind of future is there? I always think of going back for another trip with my Girl Friend but the crime stories stop me. Most of my SA friends have left to Australia, Canada, Europe, etc. And I wonder as South Africans where can you now go for holiday (not too far from home, off course there's always Europe,etc but that's not what I mean) Namibia, Mauritius, Victoria Falls.... Zimbabwe is a total mess (wonder how that will end)....

You don't mention the length of this contract but that is very important. If it gives you enough time to travel to all the different corners and areas of SA go for it. I mean, you have Brazil which is at least a month right there. Venezuela/Angel Falls - Peru/Ecuador/Galapagos Islands - amazing trips... I can go on and on. BA is a beautiful city but I haven't been there for awhile. If you liked/can handle ROME than you can handle BA. Sounds like New Zealand or Australia is more your cup of tea. Place to live for very "outdoorsy" type people... Dudester, For What it's Worth

PS Of Course BA is Baby Friendly, it's Latin Catholic - need I say more......
 

steveinbsas

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Lulu,You haven't added how long the job would keep you here. Even if the job transfer (you didn't call it a promotion) would be tremendously helpful to you husbands career, its rather doubtful you would find Buenos Aires satisfactory enough to want to stay here more than a year or two. I base that on your description of how much you love the place you currently live as well as my own experience of living here for two years.

I live in Recoleta (ten minutes to the city center) and the street noise is significant. Traffic during the day is heavy and commuting by car from outer areas would be a nightmare. Buying a car would be a major task in the first place. The subway (even linea d) is dirty and jammed during rush hours. Buses are numerous, loud, and fill the air at the street level with thick, black smoke (no biodeisel here). Local moms push strollers through it in almost every block as their babies bounce about going over the broken sidewalks while avoiding the mini-mountains of doggie-doo. There are certainly not druggies on every corner, but enough pan handlers and purse and cell phone snatchers to keep you alert.
I know Rome and Malaga. There is little here to compare favorably with life in those cities. The South America of your dreams: the Mayans, Mexico, Guatemala, Patagonia, Amazonia does not exist in Capital Federal. If you do come here, make sure you can return and reclaim the life in Cape Town that you love so much. It's difficult to imagine that the benefits of coming here would be worth the sacrifice of what you already have where you are, especially friends and family, mountains and sea, and, not the least of all, doctors who speak English well enough for you to trust them with the health care of your baby.

Long ago, Buenos Aires was called the "Paris of the South" but that hasn't really been true since the 1920's. Buenos Aries today reminds me much more of NYC in the 1970's.
 

perry

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This is a most interesting thread and one that suprises me with the comments that I have read here . I also spend hours in traffic here every day from the south to the north and I do not see this city as the one described by others.
Yes the drivers are erractic and do not respect any rules. yes the city is dirty . yes the prices are no longer cheap but Buenos Aires as a city has something that is fascinating and alluring.
What about the incredible nightlife, the excellent coffee shops. the museums . the great Sunday markets and a myriad of other positives.
Remember this is a city of 12 million and there is no way you can compare this with Capetown or Perth Australia or any other small city,.
I suggest that if you move here that learning the language will help you adapt easier and also help to understand the Argentine people quicker. remember to visit the milongas as they are a great way of understanding the pysche of the inhabitants here/.
 

CABJ

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I never been to Hospital Brittanico but I am sure there you can find some doctors that speak fairly decent level of English and there sure some in other private clinics. I would not worry about that. (private) healthcare is not bad in Argentina
Nobody told you to live in CF, I am sure it has most of the same problems then the centre of Cape Town. You can always move to the upper class suburbs if you like a different lifestyle
The baby is just 8 months now, so there is about 3 years to go before he or she needs to go to school and a nice bilingual kindergarden is nothing to be ashamed and would definitly help in her or his development
It would be helpfull if you can then where your husband will work
 

steveinbsas

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My post was not meant to "dis" Buenos Aires, but to answer Lulu's questions in the context of her post, given her stated priorities and desires. I didn't even mention that the "green" lifestyle that she and her husband love is almost non-existent in BA. Yes there are some lovely parks, but Lulu asked if there is more. There really isn't (not in the city).

It's true, no one told Lulu to live in CF, but, base on her second post where she asked about the commute from Recoleta or Belgrano to downtown, I am guessing that's where the job is. Commuting here is not fun..or easy, especially from outside of CF! I have private health care here and less than half the doctors I've seen are fluent in English. Far fewer of the administrative staff speak ingles and it can be difficult making appointments. I originally signed up with Omint because they were associated with hospital Britanico, but it wasn't close to my apartment and the name didn't guarantee that the employees spoke English. Communication is indeed something to worry about when you or your baby is sick in a foreign country, especially when it come to discussing medication or treatment options. I recently switched to Swiss medical because they are close to where I live. My Spanish is good enough in most circumstances, but I don't hesitate to have my girlfriend double check anything of which I may not be certain.
Lulu and her husband aren't the usual "wannabe expats" who want to move here to live and learn Spanish and the tango...or sit in a sidewalk cafe "soaking up the culture" as the buses scream past. They have been offered a job in a city that they do not know and simply does not compare favorably with where they are now. They don't have the chance to visit and discover this for themselves before accepting or rejecting the offer. Lulu asked for advice and this is what I have to offer.

As I said, I know Rome and Malaga, and I have live in the mountains and at the sea (Park City, Utah, Marina Del Rey, CA, and Sayulita, MX). I visited Buenos Aires for two months in May of 2006 and decided to move here to live. I do not yet regret that decision. Even with the rising prices, crime, and the lack of mountains and sea, Buenos Aires IS the place for me. Fortunately, I had the chance to take my time to make that decision. My priorities and desires however, were quite different from those of Lulu and her family.
 

CABJ

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"steveinbsas" said:
My post was not meant to "dis" Buenos Aires, but to answer Lulu's questions in the context of her post, given her stated priorities and desires. I didn't even mention that the "green" lifestyle that she and her husband love is almost non-existent in BA. Yes there are some lovely parks, but Lulu asked if there is more. There really isn't (not in the city).

It's true, no one told Lulu to live in CF, but, base on her second post where she asked about the commute from Recoleta or Belgrano to downtown, I am guessing that's where the job is. Commuting here is not fun..or easy, especially from outside of CF!
I have private health care here and less than half the doctors speak English. Far fewer of the staff do and it can be difficult making appointments. I originally signed up with Omint because they were associated with hospital Brittanico, but it wasn't clost to my apartment and th name doesn't mean the employees speak English. Communication is indeed something to worry about when you or your baby is sick in a foreign country, especially when it come to discussing medication or treatment options. I recently switched to Swiss medical because they are close to where I live.

Lulu and her husband aren't the usual "wannabe expats" who want to move here to live and learn Spanish and the tango...or sit in a sidewalk cafe as the buses scream past. They have been offered a job in a city that they do not know and simply does not compare favorably with where they are now. They don't have the chance to visit and discover this for themselves before accepting or rejecting the offer. Lulu asked for advice and this is what I have to offer.

As I said, I know Rome and Malaga, and I have live in the mountains and at the sea (Park City, Utah, Marina Del Rey, CA, and Sayulita, MX). I visited Buenos Aires for two months in May of 2006 and decided to move here to live. I do not regret that decision. Even with the rising prices, crime, and the lack of mountains and sea, Buenos Aires IS the place for me. Fortunately, I had the chance to take my time to make that decision. My priorities and desires however, were quite different from those of Lulu and her family. After two years of living here, I don't regret the decision in the slightest.
Drive 30 minutes and you can have green all you want for the next 4000 km south, 2000 km west, and 2000 km north . Tigre is about 20 minutes in train from Zona Norte and about 50 from Capital and there is plenty of green.
The level of populution is very acceptable in zona Norte, even by Western standards and I doubt it will be a lot better in Cape town.
Commuting you have to do everywhere and 30 to 50 minutes is not really that outragous. If you worry about overcrowed trains, start early and work late to avoid rush hours and take your familiy to the countryside during the weekends and holidays.
Most of the problems named is this topic are just not as big of a problem in Zona Norte then they are in Capital. Sidewalks in general are clean, not broken, there is very few dogshit, the busses mainly stay on the big avenues and even the cartoneros and beggars stay away
All you need is 1 or maybe 2 doctors who have an acceptable level of English. If all the others don´t speak English is just not really usefull to know.
I also know Rome and Malaga(I actually own an appartment about 20 km from Malaga) and both cities just can´t cut it compared to Buenos Aires.
 

CABJ

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If you can afford and willing to live in a appartment it might be an idea to live in Puerto Madero
No commuting, quiet, clean, safe, no buses, huge natural park available, no broken sidewalks, and the rio de la plata close
 

HDM

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"Dudester" said:
Aw man, compare the crime in Jo'burg to BA. Jo'burg crime is just totally out of control. I was in SA for a month in 1984 and even though it's a beautiful country (and of course was much safer in 1984 but that's because...well we know what was going on back then - making no judgements here) what kind of future is there? I always think of going back for another trip with my Girl Friend but the crime stories stop me. Most of my SA friends have left to Australia, Canada, Europe, etc. And I wonder as South Africans where can you now go for holiday (not too far from home, off course there's always Europe,etc but that's not what I mean) Namibia, Mauritius, Victoria Falls.... Zimbabwe is a total mess (wonder how that will end)....


My comparison was not Cape Town to Buenos Aires, which is of course not even close, but to compare something she would know, like Johannesburg to BA. Jo-Burg's population is about 8 million, BA's is about 12. There are horrid shanties, of course, in both cities, and a pretty fair crime rate, but there are also absolutely luxurious neighborhoods with every amenity imaginable. I was last there in 2002. The comparison is not tit for tat, but it is pretty close, especially for someone in South Africa, who knows Jo-Burg. If she wouldn't want to live in Jo-Burg, no matter how luxurious the neighborhood, then I would seriously consider whether or not what she will find in BA will be suitable for what she has in mind. By the way, I lived in Pretoria, 15 miles from Jo-Burg, for 2 years and was never robbed or mugged. I was mugged my second day in Buenos Aires, and burgled at the end of the first week. Although neither has happened again during any visit -- so far. I stand by my recommendation to LuLu that she might find Jo-Burg and BA not all that dissimilar at the core. (Unless one never leaves Belgrano or parts of Palermo, and in that case, you could just as well be in Paris or Madrid.)



You don't mention the length of this contract but that is very important. If it gives you enough time to travel to all the different corners and areas of SA go for it. I mean, you have Brazil which is at least a month right there. Venezuela/Angel Falls - Peru/Ecuador/Galapagos Islands - amazing trips... I can go on and on. BA is a beautiful city but I haven't been there for awhile. If you liked/can handle ROME than you can handle BA. Sounds like New Zealand or Australia is more your cup of tea. Place to live for very "outdoorsy" type people... Dudester, For What it's Worth



PS Of Course BA is Baby Friendly, it's Latin Catholic - need I say more......
 

steveinbsas

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Quoting CABJ..."Tigre is about 20 minutes in train from Zona Norte and about 50 from Capital and there is plenty of green.
The
level of populution is very acceptable in zona Norte, even by Western
standards and I doubt it will be a lot better in Cape town.
Commuting
you have to do everywhere and 30 to 50 minutes is not really that
outragous. If you worry about overcrowed trains, start early and work
late to avoid rush hours and take your familiy to the countryside
during the weekends and holidays."
The early morning train ride from Tigre is always packed, and you'd better be boarding in Tigre if you want to be sitting. Once you get to Retiro, there is still a taxi, bus, or subway ride to deal with to get to work. I know Tigre and it is not the place I would suggest for a foreign family to live. (Nice place for an occasional weekend, though, even if you don't have a car, as the train is not so crowded then.)
Commuting is not something you have to do everywhere, and I would especially try to avoid it here. Personally, I wouldn't even want to commute from Belgrano on linea d of the subway. If the job is downtown, I strongly recommend living in Recoleta. Its close enough to walk to the city center on a nice day, and there are many nice days here. There are many furnished apartments in Recoleta, but avoid the area between Cordova and Av Santa Fe.
CABJ also wrote: "I also know Rome and Malaga(I actually own an appartment about 20 km
from Malaga) and both cities just can´t cut it compared to Buenos Aires."

I would love to know what you think makes Buenos Aires superior to Rome...and how Paris might rank as well...if you have an opinion.
 
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