we might transfer to BA but need advise ... PLEASE !!

[CABJ]

If you look at the emigrating-rate of the white people in South Africa it looks like they are pretty similar
BA does have
1) a different culture
2) A different language
3) More safety
4) Nicest continent in the world
5) Soccer
6) Rugby
And other then the mountains and ocean(eventhough the Rio de la Plata shore is pretty nice) zona norte brings everything that Cape town does as well

 

[LuLu_CT]

Hello again !!



Wow, that’s quite a huge response and I have so much I want
to reply to, as well as add.

Where to begin …. Hmmm. Firstly, Dudester … regarding Joburg
in 1984, well funny

But true … but it was worse then than now. Believe it or
not. That’s when everyone put

Up electric fencing, moved the cbd into the suburbs and
never stopped at a red traffic light at night. Also the time of hijackings and
what not. Cape Town was Paradise
then. Now Joburg is better but the electric fences stay put and you pretty much
entertain in eachothers homes or shopping malls. I had to live there once
(work) and it was the worse time of my life. You cannot compare Joburg
(especially in the 80’s) and Cape Town
at present. There is no way I would live there, not for any amount of money or
job. Where do

South Africans go on holiday? That must be a joke right? We
have the most awesome country with everything you could possibly want and more.
You can drive for half an hour and be somewhere comparable to the Maldives
and sleep under the stars. I LOVE my country and if you have not been to the Wild
Coast or to the Garden
Route to name a few obvious ones then look them up
and you will see South Africans have everything on their doorstep. Its not a
wonder that so many Dutch, Germans and other Europeans come to live here. I
don’t think they would if life was so bad here or if it was that difficult to
adjust to (compared to European standards) Am I being a bit defensive? Sorry. I
am going to include a link here so you can see what it is like? Regarding the
query about where South Africans go on holiday. Even though you get to see who
I am and my family and it feels weird … I still want you to see. South Africans
go away a lot on weekends because there are so many beautiful places close to us.
This trip was an hours drive away from Cape Town CBD.



http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15882&l=45504&id=656456668





And this is where we live: http://www.getf.org/iwc4/template.cfm?FrontID=5064
(camps bay)





The contract would be for a year and maybe longer. My hubby
will be setting up a new office, also working with an exhisting Argentinian
company that has ties with his company here. It is not a promotion, just a
transfer if he so wishes. The thing as well … he will have to be paid in pesos
and through a local bank so we don’t score with a foreign currency and this is a
negative. It looks like we will spend more money going than staying. Rent is
also a lot more expensive than what we pay now. (from what I have researched)



Steveinbasa, you make great points and I think you understand
my situation 100% Thanks!! Rome was
a great city although too polluted for me and that was when I was in my pre
family days. I ended up living outside of Rome,
on Lago di Bracciano. That was amazing. Nature and calm 30 min away form the Rome
chaos. Even though Rome is a big
city there is something about Italy
that makes you feel safer than other countries. The people, warmth etc. This
was in the 90’s, maybe its changed. Malaga back then was crime free (totally) I
lived in Estepona, just after Marbella and we used to sleep with the door
unlocked, cars unlocked and the locals left their beach gear on the beach over
night to ‘keep’ their places during summer months. I remember watching people
leave their wallets on their towels and go for an hour walk down the beach. I
though this was great (being a South African and all)



Pericles. Yes I know the night life is great, friends of
mine and my brother have told me about this but this is not the reason why we
would go. We wont be able to eat out at night or enjoy the nightlife with a
little baby. We are not going to BA for a learning experience or cultural
experience. I traveled and live abroad (Spain
and Italy) for
8 years so have done the whole travelling thing. This would be a work transfer
for my hubby and that’s all. We can always go to Argentina
on holiday another time and go to all those beautiful places we long to. I do
speak Spanish, although not BA style.



Steveinbasa … I am not sure where the job will be to be
honest, not sure they have gotten that far seeing as he has not accepted it
yet. I imagine its downtown central. Medical would concern me. We have a good
plan here and when you have a baby and an excellent pediatrician who is like a
family member then it can be scary starting all over again in a foreign
country. We have excellent mediacal care here, I can’t imagine it to be better
there. Even my husband said that you could not get the standard we get in Germany
even. We are not big on drugs and meds in general and always try go the natural
route if we can. I cant imagine BA to be big on homeopaths or am I wrong? Ok, I
guess this is not the issue here however but it is something to think about.



“Lulu and her husband aren't the usual "wannabe
expats" who want to move here to live and learn Spanish and the tango...or
sit in a sidewalk cafe "soaking up the culture" as the buses scream
past. They have been offered a job in a city that they do not know and simply
does not compare favorably with where they are now. They don't have the chance
to visit and discover this for themselves before accepting or rejecting the
offer. Lulu asked for advice and this is what I have to offer.” Spot on, thanks
steveinbsas.



HDM, very good points. A lot of people don’t realize that
even with the worse news stories daily, crime does not effect you as one
thinks. I am the kind of person that walks the streets at nights, gets lifts
with strangers (ok, when I was younger) I used to take public transport etc etc
and I have never been mugged, burgled, robbed etc. I am 36 years

Old, that’s a long time to be unaffected J




Regarding commuting, anything more than 10 or 15 minutes is
long for us but that’s because my husband works just over the mountain here in
CT. He works long hours and gets home at 6.30 most nights. Setting up office in
BA would be longer hours and if commuting takes longer then he will be home
after 7 pm. Baba will be asleep and that’s

Sad. The company my husband works for sets us up in a
company apartment and then we would have to find our own place. I have no idea
where it would be but all the big bosses have been back and forth to BA and
knowing the company … it would be the best option.



Clean air and friendly people and places are more important
to me than the crime, even though this sounds absurd. Its just that we are used
to crime here and manage to avoid it.

I need to be able to go to places with baby and a pram and
sit in public while I feed or go for walks, meet people with babies and be able
to have a nice warm feeling. I will be on my own in the day time and I don’t want
to watch my bags (you know there are many when you have a baby) I can’t imagine
being on crowded buses or trains with a screaming baby. Here we drive
everywhere so public transport would be challenging. I don’t want to step over
dog poops in the park.



There is quite a few Argentinians living in Cape Town these
days. Interesting.



I want to come, don’t get me wrong. I am up for an
adventure, change, experience etc. Its not forever. Baby worries me although
the language and culture would be great for him. Medical and crime and economy
worry me but not as much as other things. I know that that the BA locals can be
somewhat rude, maybe arrogant. Like other countries, it takes a while for
locals to accept you and become warm towards you. We don’t have that time. When
my husband travels back to CT (every two months for a few days) I want to feel
that its ok to be there on my own, maybe have some friends, potential
babysitters and some good places to go during the day for fresh air and some
greenery. Traffic and chaos, car fumes and noise are things I don’t want to
have to endure with a baby having to walk everywhere and on a day to day basis,
maybe once a week, but not every day. I guess its not a good idea for us. Pity.
We will visit in the near future however and I remember all of you and tell you
all what I think.



I can imagine what lures you all to BA, I had that feeling
my whole life. Its like the tango really, not 100% soft and sweet, some
mystery, some pain but 100% passion and I can imagine it gets under your skin
and you cant leave, like an addiction. Spain was like for me. I did not like
the food so much, the people take a while to warm up to you, the beaches aren’t
close to ours here BUT there was something … and it felt much like a one sided
affair BUT with a country and not a person. Can some of you tell me what drew you
to BA, what makes you stay?



I could write so much more but not going to.



Thanks to you all, you all have something important to say
and I appreciate that !!

Just so you all know … which is what blogs are for I guess …
my hubby and I are making our decision purely on what you all have to say so
thank you very much. I am amazed that there are people like you who actually
exhist and want to help others. I know you aren’t badmouthing BA, you are just
saying it how it is. I would have done the same.



Thanks so much !!

 

[monicabb]

I love Ba and find it a great place to raise a family . The schools here are excellent. medical care world class, and the people respectful.
I am tired of these bitter expats who are hijacking all these forums with lies and more lies.
Steve why are you living here since you dislike it so much. I am curious to know

 

[CABJ]

Hello again !!Hello

Where do South Africans go on holiday?

Argentina does have:
Pinamar, Carilo, Villa Gesel
The higest mountain of the America´s
Bariloche, Lan Lenas and about 10 places more to ski
Salta
North of Argentina
Patagonia
Rosario
Mendoza
Igazu
San Martin
Cordoba
Tierra del Fuego
Puerto Madryn
Perito Moreno
I am sure Argentina can easily rival South Africa
Close to BA
Tigre
Lujan
Zoo of Escobar
Estancias
Abroad:
Chile
Peru
Uruguay
Brasil
Bolivia

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15882&l=45504&id=656456668
http://www.getf.org/iwc4/template.cfm?FrontID=5064 There is no ocean near to BA, so you have to deal with the Rio de la Plata, but the costanera is pretty nice and the coast in Zona Norte as well

The contract would be for a year and maybe longer. My hubby
will be setting up a new office, also working with an exhisting Argentinian
company that has ties with his company here. It is not a promotion, just a
transfer if he so wishes. The thing as well … he will have to be paid in pesos
and through a local bank so we don’t score with a foreign currency and this is a
negative. It looks like we will spend more money going than staying. Rent is
also a lot more expensive than what we pay now. (from what I have researched)
If you tell me what you are looking for I can give you a pretty good estimate what you should be looking at for rent
Negociate a deal with Euro´s or Dollars, if they are looking to bring over from South Africa he will most likely be worth it
Malaga back then was crime free (totally) I lived in Estepona, just after Marbella and we used to sleep with the door unlocked, cars unlocked and the locals left their beach gear on the beach over night to ‘keep’ their places during summer months. I remember watching people leave their wallets on their towels and go for an hour walk down the beach. I though this was great (being a South African and all)
The only thing that Estepona and Malaga have in common is that they are in the same province
The Costa del Sol does have a HUGE crime problem now, mainly because of a huge influx of (illegal) immigrants since 2000.
It´s very hard to find a home that has never been broken into

Pericles. Yes I know the night life is great, friends of
mine and my brother have told me about this but this is not the reason why we
would go. We wont be able to eat out at night or enjoy the nightlife with a
little baby. We are not going to BA for a learning experience or cultural
experience. I traveled and live abroad (Spain and Italy) for
8 years so have done the whole travelling thing. This would be a work transfer
for my hubby and that’s all. We can always go to Argentina
on holiday another time and go to all those beautiful places we long to. I do
speak Spanish, although not BA style.
Spanish is Spanish
You can take your little baby with you if you go out for dinner, it´s pretty much accepted. It´s like Spain

Steveinbasa … I am not sure where the job will be to be
honest, not sure they have gotten that far seeing as he has not accepted it
yet. I imagine its downtown central. Medical would concern me. We have a good
plan here and when you have a baby and an excellent pediatrician who is like a
family member then it can be scary starting all over again in a foreign
country. We have excellent mediacal care here, I can’t imagine it to be better
there. Even my husband said that you could not get the standard we get in Germany
even. We are not big on drugs and meds in general and always try go the natural
route if we can. I cant imagine BA to be big on homeopaths or am I wrong? Ok, I
guess this is not the issue here however but it is something to think about.
A good private plan in argentina is better then a state plan in Europe unless you are really sick(cancer and stuff like that)
Regarding commuting, anything more than 10 or 15 minutes is
long for us but that’s because my husband works just over the mountain here in
CT. He works long hours and gets home at 6.30 most nights. Setting up office in
BA would be longer hours and if commuting takes longer then he will be home
after 7 pm. Baba will be asleep and that’s Sad. The company my husband works for sets us up in a company apartment and then we would have to find our own place. I have no idea where it would be but all the big bosses have been back and forth to BA and knowing the company … it would be the best option.
You CAN´T find a place with lot´s of green at just 10-15 minutes from where most offices are located. You can check out Puerto Madero, but that´s just appartments
Clean air and friendly people and places are more important
to me than the crime, even though this sounds absurd. Its just that we are used
to crime here and manage to avoid it.
I need to be able to go to places with baby and a pram and
sit in public while I feed or go for walks, meet people with babies and be able
to have a nice warm feeling. I will be on my own in the day time and I don’t want
to watch my bags (you know there are many when you have a baby) I can’t imagine
being on crowded buses or trains with a screaming baby. Here we drive
everywhere so public transport would be challenging. I don’t want to step over
dog poops in the park.
Move to zona norte in a home or appartement which is close to the train station and close to a city centre(San Isidro is the best in my opinion) and don´t use public transport
I want to come, don’t get me wrong. I am up for an
adventure, change, experience etc. Its not forever. Baby worries me although
the language and culture would be great for him. Medical and crime and economy
worry me but not as much as other things. I know that that the BA locals can be
somewhat rude, maybe arrogant. Like other countries, it takes a while for
locals to accept you and become warm towards you. We don’t have that time. When my husband travels back to CT (every two months for a few days) I want to feel that its ok to be there on my own, maybe have some friends, potential
babysitters and some good places to go during the day for fresh air and some
greenery. Traffic and chaos, car fumes and noise are things I don’t want to
have to endure with a baby having to walk everywhere and on a day to day basis,
maybe once a week, but not every day. I guess its not a good idea for us. Pity.
We will visit in the near future however and I remember all of you and tell you
all what I think. Zona Norte again

Thanks to you all, you all have something important to say
and I appreciate that !!
Thanks so much !!No problem

I would be more then willing to commute 2 hours a day if that is better and more healthy for my kid and wife. But maybe it´s just me
It sure beats letting your kid and wife stay all day in noisy, poluted Recoleta in a small 40 year old appartment populated with cartoneros and negros

 

[steveinbsas]

CABJ:Now we know you are a racist? In fact, there aren't many "negros" to be found in Recoleta. Once in a while in the street I do overhear a tourist from the States or GB who happens to have African ancestry. Otherwise, Recoleta is one of the whitest barrios you can find...if that is important to you. Usually ONLY white people are to be seen in the cafes and restaurants, unless they are employees (and most of them are white, too).

 

[CABJ]

I am talking about the word negro in porteña. Which means something like someone from a slum.
And yes they are plenty of negros in Recoleta as it is in Capital

 

[steveinbsas]

"monicabb"I love Ba and find it a great place to raise a family . The schools here are excellent. medical care world class, and the people respectful.
I am tired of these bitter expats who are hijacking all these forums with lies and more lies.
Steve why are you living here since you dislike it so much. I am curious to know

How can expats hijack expat forums? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Monica, if you are not an "expat" it is impossible for you to have an "expat" experience here...or receive the "expat" treatment (which is a very real phenomenon).

I never said I disliked living here. I have only pointed out the reality of day to day life here. I'm having a ball!

One of the "dangers" I did not mention in my previous posts is how "disrespectful" Argentine drivers are of the rights of pedestrians. I have had many close calls at the intersection nearest to my apartment and I had been thinking about it regarding Lulu and her baby as they would make their way to the park. Others have commented on this subject in other threads, so I didn't think it was necessary to write about it here. But this afternoon an elderly Portena was hit by a car at that intersection as she crossed (in the senda) with the light. Even more disgusting was the way the cars which had to wait for her to be loaded into the ambulance blew their horns incessantly...until one of the policeman walked up the street and told them to lay off.

None of my posts have contained exaggerations or misrepresentations. Please research them and report back if you find something that is misleading in the slightest...and don't hesitate to quote me.

 

[monicabb]

Rascism is something that Steve knows a lot about since he tells us constantly how bad the Argentinians are , how unfriendly, how dishonest , how dirty and all from a attitude of superiority.
Do all you remember the post where he attacked the Argentine national

 

[steveinbsas]

quoting monicabb:
Rascism is something that Steve knows a lot about since he tells us constantly how bad the Argentinians are , how unfriendly, how dishonest , how dirty and all from a attitude of superiority.
Do all you remember the post where he attacked the Argentine national

Back it up, Monica, in complete sentences, if possible. All of my posts are still there. Punctuation isn't that important, though you obviously missed your last period.
When did I ever say a single Argentine was dirty or unfriendly (and why would I care)? Actually, if you check you will see that I was chided for defending the politeness of portenos in the "why don't portenos know how to say I'm sorry" thread.
Perhaps someone who doesn't speak English as a primary language would perceive my attitude as superior, but I don't know why anyone would be so indignant about the truth being told or misrepresent what I've written. I only share what I have seen and experienced. My feelings aren't important. Writing about specific incidents of crime and dishonesty is not racism, even when they are common. Newbies and wannabe expats need to know what they are likely to encounter here...and how to stay safe, if it is possible for them to do so.
I attacked the Argntine national what??

 

[Dudester]

Back to LULU for a moment (and dear, that was a smashing version of "TO SIR WITH LOVE" you belted out back in the day, still makes me cry - lol. An inside joke for old enough music fans) Yes, I know SA is lovely LOVELY, EFFING LOVELY !!! (pounds it into Dudesters head), Here's my 1984 itinerary in full : Jo'BURG/SUN CITY/DURBAN - ZULU LAND/PORT ELIZABETH/PLET BAY - drove to - CAPE TOWN/Jo'BURG - PRETORIA/KRUGER PARK (Safari)/Back To Jo'BURG/Flight out, hung with SAA crew - everybody but the pilot for 2 days/nights in NYC. Now that was FUN!!! Some friendly, very pretty flight attendants and some hard drinkin' crew and co-pilots. Heard every "Mile High Club" story (and some other great ones-having sex under a blanket in the cabin during lights out "sleep time" - these long range fliers had seen it all - interesting stuff, I LOVE hanging with International Flight Crews....

Anyway, LULU, here's my honest feeling about this whole move - YOU LOVE SA/CT WAY TOO MUCH TO MOVE. It's all over your writings. So this is my advice. If you will be able to travel much of SA during your stay in BA I would do it. If traveling is out of the question I would skip the trip. You're not gonna like BA as much as Cape Town - NO WAY. See, I LOVE the feeling of BA. The people have been through a lot and you can tell. Maybe if you live there it gets unpleasant. I love the intensity of the Tango. BA is a big city with big city problems, it's nothing that an outdoorsy person would gravitate to. I think you're not gonna like it. Really, in all honesty you sound like a PERTH, BRISBAINE, CAIRNS, AUCKLAND person, BA is more ROME/MADRID/MEXICO CITY - don't see you happy there. That's my honest opinion. Man, women LOVE their babies, do you still remember hubby's name??? Just Joking - kinda : )