What's Going On By The Congress Now?

[MikeB12]

Has anyone come across a somewhat objective article explaining the details of this bill? All I can find is Macri and the Pro say this and FPV say that.

 

[semigoodlookin]

In current USA english, the word "thug" is old white guy code for black people and chicanos.
Seems like its being used here in a similar sense to discuss young leftists, and, suggest they are immigrants from other countries who live in villas.

There is no doubt there were 100-200 angry young men throwing rocks- at the front of a crowd of tens of thousands of ordinary people.
This is the case at most demonstrations- there are always testostorone driven young men, ready to make trouble- and they always get the most publicity.
I was in Seattle (nearby, anyway) during the WTO demonstrations- and a couple of dozen of these type of kids broke some windows, and the right assigned blame to thirty thousand demonstrators.

Frankly, in a city of 4 plus million, you could find 100 kids ready to make trouble, but it tells you NOTHING about the actual feelings of the argentine people.

In my barrio, last night, at 10pm, I saw hundreds and hundreds of ordinary argentines protest. Not "stupid argentines"- no, these were my neighbors, regular people of all ages. The majority, as in, more than 50% of them, were jubilados. Because they are directly being affected by this law, and they are mad as hell and not going to take it any more.

There was not a single black clad anarchist revolutionary throwing rocks at the corner of Coronel Diaz and Santa Fe last night. There were hundreds of locals, old, young, and in between, genuinely pissed off at the government. They were not radical leftists, they were not stupid or uninformed. Most, no doubt, went to college- its an affluent neighborhood. They blocked the street, banged on pots and pans, honked horns, and chanted for a couple of hours, then peacefully went home to their houses in the surrounding buildings.
No marxists. Just folks.
And, definitely, not a single "thug".

Why would using the word thug have racial connotations? The word means any person who is violent, not just minorities. I have never heard of the word thug being "code" for anything. Edit: You clarified why in a post while I was writing, I am not sure I agree, but there is one person who has made this debate a racial one on these boards, and I am not entirely sure why you decided to do that.

Obviously not everyone at the central protest yesterday was inciting violence. However, to say 100 to 200 is a complete underestimation. It would have taken police about half hour to sort out a crowd of 100 to 200. There were thousands, how many exactly can be left to speculation, but I think it's too early for the kind of revisionism that would put the number at possibly a 100. Dozens were arrested, so you think after those were taken into custody there were only 40 left causing violence (based on your lower estimate)?

The people you observed in your barrio were completely within their rights. By the way, just because you see many unhappy people banging pots, even if it was all 4 million of the city, it does not mean the law is bad. Like Ben suggested, the merits or demerits of the actual law have been lost in the circus. I am wary of it personally so understand those people you saw peacefully showing their own distaste. But to assume those people you saw were any more right or wrong than those who believe it is a good legislation is misleading.

Let's not forget that people taking to the streets to bang their pots and be "mad as hell" is hardly anything new here.

 

[MikeB12]

From what I understand...

The gov't is changing the way pensions will be calculated. This change in calculation is going to cause a decrease in pension payouts to address the budget deficit. In order to cover the difference pensioners will receive a payment from the government who is issuing a bond.

I'm trying to eliminate all ideology from my mind, but I'm more sympathetic to Marci than the previous government. I believe his team is more competent and less corrupt than the Kirchner administration.

I understand he was left with a precarious financial situation, but it seems the people paying the price to get out of this hole are the most vulnerable. I just wonder if there is a more creative way to address the deficit.

 

[on the brink]

The highly organized and deliberate show of violence was intended not to protect pensioners, but CFK and her son, Maximo, who are due to appear in court soon.

Judge Lopez Vergara, a devout Kirchnerist, issued a ruling forbidding the Metropolitan police to carry weapons. All they had was their shields to protect them from the mob. No wonder 88 policemen ended up in the hospital.

 

[ben]

Trump constantly uses the word "thug", when he is referring to black people. When he is talking about Nazis and white supremicists, he uses "very nice people".

then there is this:
As John McWhorter, an associate professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University, http://www.npr.org/2...word-thug"]told NPR in 2015%5B/url%5D:

"Well, the truth is that thug today is a nominally polite way of using the N-word. Many people suspect it, and they are correct. When somebody talks about thugs ruining a place, it is almost impossible today that they are referring to somebody with blond hair. It is a sly way of saying there go those black people ruining things again. And so anybody who wonders whether thug is becoming the new N-word doesn't need to. It's most certainly is."​

1st of all: I don't listen to THAT much Trump, certainly not enough to warp my prior knowledge of the English language. I had never associated any racial connotation with the word. And when it comes to white supremacists, "thug" is far more likely a word to come to mind to most people, than "very nice people".

(Unrelated, the problem with the current generation of skinheads is that they tend to espouse, at least formally, non-violent demonstration. So while more sinister than actual thuggery, they often do not qualify for the term "thug").

Regarding Dr. McWhorter, I will note that academics sometimes tend to get ahead of themselves with these things, as well as that this assertion of his is noteworthy enough that his Wikipedia page lists it.

Anyway, my point is- there are a few kids who were attacking the police, and they amounted to about .001% of the crowd at that protest, and much less of a percentage of the people of Buenos Aires who were, and are, protesting all over town.

When I think of thugs, I think of moto-chorros, or of futbol hooligans- neither of which are the least political, and both of which outnumber the violent protesters yesterday. Football hooligans, true thugs, are present in apolitical hundreds of thousands around the world. They beat people up for wearing the wrong color shirt.

From what I saw yesterday live, the ratio did NOT appear to be 0.001%. Not even close. More than enough to bring a massive stigma at the very least to those people present at the Congreso. It's like being in Charlottesville when people next to you start chanting "Jews will not replace us" - if you're a decent person, you leave.

The Congreso riot, again, was planned, organized and executed in tandem with the activity on the Congress floor, same as Thursday. There was more than enough violence to make one's continued presence there repugnant.

And as for the other protests, again - and as semigoodlookin puts it well - a) they are completely within their rights; b ) I am completely within my rights to question their competence, if not their sincerity. People here (everywhere really, but even more here) lend themselves rather easily to following party lines.

 

[Macanudo]

Quote from The Wild One with Marlon Brando
[background=rgb(252, 250, 231)]
Mildred: Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?[/background][background=rgb(252, 250, 231)]
Johnny: Whadda you got?[/background]

 

[Ries]

I live in both the USA and Argentina. In the USA, for the past year, not only has it been impossible not to listen to Trump, but it has been impossible not to hear dozens of mainstream media sources on the right that are constantly using "thug" to mean black people. It is impossible not to hear friends (yes, I have friends who are not clones of me politically) use the term racially, to hear neighbors and see politicians, and, very frequently sports casters, use "thug" to mean black people. Every sports radio show in the USA has been talking about "thugs" who wont stand and salute during the anthem for months.
This usage of the word is everpresent in the USA. In public, and in private life, on every media outlet.
The current owner of the Panthers is selling due to just this kind of oblique racism.

I am not accusing anyone here, personally, of being racist- merely stating that, in an english language forum, you cannot use the word without those connotations coming up, regardless of whether you think it means that or not.
The language, all languages, change due to contemporary usage.

Lots of words carry weight that may not come up in google translate- something I certainly try to be conscious of as I learn Castellano.

 

[another]

Has anyone come across a somewhat objective article explaining the details of this bill? All I can find is Macri and the Pro say this and FPV say that.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2092176-que-es-la-reforma-previsional-y-que-cambios-puede-introducir-en-las-jubilaciones

 

[julian63]

To argue that skin color is inferred in the use of the word "thugs" is to lose credibility. Of course, that doesn't mean that someone can't delude themselves into attaching such an inapposite connotation. I'll be sure to remember this when I see other such posts.

 

[wineguy999]

In the USA, for the past year, not only has it been impossible not to listen to Trump...

In this, I must disagree strongly. I have found it quite easy not to listen to his moronic babble, as well as that of his toadies. If I could avoid his bloated visage, I'd be two for two!