what's the deal with $USD in argentina?

[solerboy]

There cannot be agreement about clauses against public order.

The landlord know that this clause is illegal, so, who is immoral?

Let s clarify this. The landlord can buy dollars at 4.29 with the pesos he receive from the tennant ONLY if he pays his taxes. The landlords wants dollars to evade taxes. I repeat, who is immoral?

Well, as I explained, to want to get more than what you deserve is greedy. Law says you deserve pesos, you want dollars, that s greedy. Landlord know the law and the tennant doesn t. He is trying to get an illegal advantage abusing of the lack of knowledge of the tennant. Nobody here knew what the law says about thos before I explained. In fact, there are many websites that tries to confuse tennants providing false informating. If this is not a fraud, what a fraud is?

Regards

First of all please do not keep quoting the law to me. Greed is not a legal concept, and lawyers are the last people who should lecture anyone on greed.

You are just peddling stereotypes. The greedy landlord, the poor unsuspecting tenant.

You state that landlords know the law, why should landlords be deemed to be any more aware of the law than their tenants ?

You also claim that the landlords are seeking to avoid tax, this is pure speciulation on your part. You also state that landlords can legally change their money for dollars and the official rate, if they pay their taxes. I have have read a number of stories on these forums of honest people being denied the right to buy dollars.

This law is a bad law, it is virtually unenforeable and like a lot of laws in Argentina most people will disregard it.

What do you propose, a policeman be present everytime someone checks into a rented apartment for their weeks holiday ? Grow up, this is real life.

You dont need to clarify the law again, I get it. OK

 

[scarface]

Greed is not a legal concept, and lawyers are the last people who should lecture anyone on greed.
You are just peddling stereotypes. The greedy landlord, the poor unsuspecting tenant.

Do you sense the comical irony of your hypocritical comment? The greedy lawyer? Classic sterotype.
Bajo_Cero2 has donated his expertise to this thread despite the personal attacks on him by stupid and uninformed jerks who insist on advocating unethical and untenable postions. Expats should thank him.

You state that landlords know the law, why should landlords be deemed to be any more aware of the law than their tenants ?

Landlords and RE agents who rent out temp apts as an ongoing business should know the basic laws affecting their business. Even if they don't have actual knowledge of the law, the law will nevertheless presume that they do. And it is absolutely correct to do so. On the other hand, tenants who rent out an apt in a foreign country are not expected to know the law. Get it?

You also claim that the landlords are seeking to avoid tax, this is pure speciulation on your part. You also state that landlords can legally change their money for dollars and the official rate, if they pay their taxes. I have have read a number of stories on these forums of honest people being denied the right to buy dollars.

LOL. Your arguments are so damn weak and nonsensical that you have resorted to this. OK, it's speculation. We all know that all landlords who work on a cash basis pay all their taxes. There's a bridge I want to show you. (It's only $1000, but if you pay cash you can have it for 900.).
You have read stories of people having difficulty buying dollars. Let's fix that dollar-buying process assuming you are right to believe the stories of people who post here that it really needs fixing (as opposed to the fact that they didn't comply with law).

This law is a bad law, it is virtually unenforeable and like a lot of laws in Argentina most people will disregard it.

What's a bad law? Requring lease contracts to be paid in AR pesos? Not sure why...as someone else has said (ad nauseum) all the landlord has to do to avoid any hardship is raise the peso price. PROBLEM SOLVED? The law has many benefits and no downside except for those who immorally seek to avoid payment of tax.

What do you propose, a policeman be present everytime someone checks into a rented apartment for their weeks holiday ? Grow up, this is real life.

There is no reason to propose anything not already allowed by law. The law doesn't set the price. Landlords can charge whatever they want. PROBLEM SOLVED. I have no sympathy for tax dodgers. Do you?

You dont need to clarify the law again, I get it. OK

If you get the law, why can't you accept that landlords don't have to be prejudiced by it. They can raise the price .Problem solved. Stop beating a dead horse.

 

[solerboy]

Do you sense the comical irony of your hypocritical comment? The greedy lawyer? Classic sterotype.
Bajo_Cero2 has donated his expertise to this thread despite the personal attacks on him by stupid and uninformed jerks who insist on advocating unethical and untenable postions. Expats should thank him. .

Thank you for appreciating my irony. I dont know who the uninformed jerks are, I myself expressed an opinion, this was challenged and I have defended my position, I declared my knowledge of Argentine law from the outset, and this led led to stupid comments from Bajo_Cero2.

Landlords and RE agents who rent out temp apts as an ongoing business should know the basic laws affecting their business. Even if they don't have actual knowledge of the law, the law will nevertheless presume that they do. And it is absolutely correct to do so. On the other hand, tenants who rent out an apt in a foreign country are not expected to know the law. Get it?.

What you are saying is ridiculous, if a person signs a contract then they are by virtue of the fact that they are signing that contract conrirming that they uderstand the contact and agree to its terms. I myslef have signed contracts in Spanish which I didnt understand, but I was aware it was a risk. Ignorance if the law is no defence.

LOL. Your arguments are so damn weak and nonsensical that you have resorted to this. OK, it's speculation. We all know that all landlords who work on a cash basis pay all their taxes. There's a bridge I want to show you. (It's only $1000, but if you pay cash you can have it for 900.)..

You and Bajo_Cero2 seem to be keen on quoting the law yet you are happy to post speculative comments about the honesty of persons you dont even know, if you cannot produce links to third party evidence then your speculation is completely rubbished. This kind of speculation wouldnt be allowed in a court of law so why should it be acceptable on an internet forum. I have not doubt that many landlords do not pay their taxes, but also I am in no doubt that there are many who do. This is a total red herring in the peso / dollar discussion, tax can just as easily be avoided if recieving pesos or dollars.

What's a bad law? Requring lease contracts to be paid in AR pesos? Not sure why...as someone else has said (ad nauseum) all the landlord has to do to avoid any hardship is raise the peso price. PROBLEM SOLVED? The law has many benefits and no downside except for those who immorally seek to avoid payment of tax..

This is a bad law because it interferes in agreements between indivuals which should be private. If a landlord offers a property at a particular price and a specified currency, the prospective tenant is at liberty to accept the offer or look elsewhere. If the general public dont have dollars the landlord will be forced, by market forces to change his position. The market should be deciding. The state shouldnt be interfering in the market, at best its what we call in the UK , the nanny state, at worst is repressive. People are adults, let them make their own minds up.

And as you stated, landlords can always to push up the price to compensate. So how is a 20% hike in prices helping the consumer ? Its just another ratchet in the inflationary cycle. In my view dollar pricing has helped keep the market more stable. And whereas I have no knowledge of Argentine law I have 25 years experience at a senior level in Housing Finance.


Throughout these discussions you have not grasped the reason why landlords prefer to take dollars instead of pesos.

Its nothing to do with greed.

These people want dollars because they have no faith in the Argentine currency, its banks or the economy. They would rather save dollars under the mattress than put their money into a peso bank account.

The Government should be fostering confidence in the economy and in the currency, only then will people willingly want to accept it.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Solerboy,

If the markets are self regulated, then, there shouldn t be a crisis in those countries where the State doesn t interference in agreements between individuals.

In fact, if I am not wrong, the crisis in the US began because of the lack of regulation of the real state market.

The whole idea about the markets self regulating is a dogma in the same way that there is people who believe that the world was created in 7 days.

We are not morrons who don t understand Adam Smith' s doctrine, it s just that we think that this is primitive and naive.

No matter what do you think, the facts is that the law in this country protects the teenant and I already explained the way it works.

Argentina is a country where we think that is good when the State interference in agreements between individuals. Without those interefences the prices of everything should be a lot higher and our salaries a lot lower.

And whereas I have no knowledge of Argentine law I have 25 years experience at a senior level in Housing Finance./quote]

Good for you, however your experience is useless if you don t understand the basic rules of the housing market in this country.

Regards

 

[solerboy]

level in Housing Finance./quote] Good for you, however your experience is useless if you don t understand the basic rules of the housing market in this country.

I do understand the rules you have explained the very eloquently. However, I have been explaining why I think they are wrong.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I do understand the rules you have explained the very eloquently. However, I have been explaining why I think they are wrong.

Okidoki

gghchmgv jhvb jh,

 

[scarface]

Thank you for appreciating my irony.

Like you really and knowingly intended it. Yeah , sure.

I dont know who the uninformed jerks are, I myself expressed an opinion, this was challenged and I have defended my position, I declared my knowledge of Argentine law from the outset, and this led led to stupid comments from Bajo_Cero2.

Exactly which comments of BC2 aree stupid? The level of argument of many who post here reflects a low level of clear thinking and in some cases outright stupidity, but I haven't read anything from him that could be correctly described as stupid.

What you are saying is ridiculous, if a person signs a contract then they are by virtue of the fact that they are signing that contract conrirming that they uderstand the contact and agree to its terms. I myslef have signed contracts in Spanish which I didnt understand, but I was aware it was a risk.

OK. You are entitled to think me ridiculous. Anyone silly enough to read this thread can decide for themselves who is the ridiculous one. (Is that like ludircous?). The legislature, the elected reps of the people, decided for public policy reasons that pesos may always be used to pay a local lease. You don't like that? Go petition your legislative reps to change the law.
That you were silly enough to sign contracts you didnt fully comprehend doesn't prove much of anything, but it makes me wonder what Housing Finance Co you worked for and how senior a level you reached.

Ignorance if the law is no defence.

In this context the ignorance of the law on the part of the landlord and tenant both is not determinative. If anything, the landlord should know he can't insist upon dollars. He is much more culpable than an ignorant tenant. Better the landlord ask for more pesos and then go to the parallel market and buy dollars.

You and Bajo_Cero2 seem to be keen on quoting the law yet you are happy to post speculative comments about the honesty of persons you dont even know, if you cannot produce links to third party evidence then your speculation is completely rubbished. This kind of speculation wouldnt be allowed in a court of law so why should it be acceptable on an internet forum. I have not doubt that many landlords do not pay their taxes, but also I am in no doubt that there are many who do. This is a total red herring in the peso / dollar discussion, tax can just as easily be avoided if recieving pesos or dollars.

Blah, blah, blah.

This is a bad law because it interferes in agreements between indivuals which should be private.

We get that you don't like this law. Go ask you Congressperson to change it. Society, via elected reps, always imposes limits on citizens' rights to enter contracts. So, for example, the law voids certain contracts entered into by minors or for a criminal purpose.

If a landlord offers a property at a particular price and a specified currency, the prospective tenant is at liberty to accept the offer or look elsewhere. If the general public dont have dollars the landlord will be forced, by market forces to change his position. The market should be deciding. The state shouldnt be interfering in the market, at best its what we call in the UK , the nanny state, at worst is repressive. People are adults, let them make their own minds up.
And as you stated, landlords can always to push up the price to compensate. So how is a 20% hike in prices helping the consumer ? Its just another ratchet in the inflationary cycle. In my view dollar pricing has helped keep the market more stable. And whereas I have no knowledge of Argentine law I have 25 years experience at a senior level in Housing Finance.
Throughout these discussions you have not grasped the reason why landlords prefer to take dollars instead of pesos.
Its nothing to do with greed.
These people want dollars because they have no faith in the Argentine currency, its banks or the economy. They would rather save dollars under the mattress than put their money into a peso bank account.
The Government should be fostering confidence in the economy and in the currency, only then will people willingly want to accept it.

This is getting way too repititious. Bye bye.

 

[glasgowjohn]

a friend changed some cash for me today in caballito / she got 4.50 for my dollars / unfortunately the place she uses is not accepting new customers at the moment.

They will sell dollars to their current clients at 4.68