Levied for no legitimate reason?? Sorry, but your argument (plea) is not convincing. In the real world the US $ is worth the market price of 6.37+ pesos. Alternatively expressed, the peso is worth US $0.157. The central bank of Arg is giving you US$ 0.189 for your pesos. Be happy.anjuna11 said:
15% surcharge on foreign transactions on Argentine credit cards starting Sep 1
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All they are doing is giving more "rapidez" to capital flight leaving Argentina. Why would anyone who has an option keep any money in this country? If you're making money in Arg, why not simply fake the books and get the money out to a more friendly country and then use your credit/debit card from that country (out of the eyes of AFIP)? If you're money comes from outside, keep it outside rather than invest in Argentina...why these people tolerate this f*cking constant abuse without exploding in open violent rebellion is totally beyond me. What a lame people they are...f*cking sheep.
prunes61 said:
What is this real world you speak of? We are talking about the gov. of Argentina and peso-dollar exchange rates.
The gov. alternates btw. the fictional world and the real world as it benefits them (and thus screws average citizens/foreigners), which is why this action is so irritating. If the central bank of Argentina wants to give me 4.60 pesos for my dollars when I exchange them, they better give me $0.217 for my pesos when I use my cc (allowing for a reasonable 3-5% spread for transaction cost and profit of providing the exchange service).
This seems so basic as to not even require stating, but in this day and age apparently this is a principle worth elucidating in Argentina. Seems fair to buy dollars at 4.6 to the peso and sell pesos at 5.29 to the dollar...
Looking at the credit card surcharge vs. black-market rates in isolation, I can see where you're coming from. However the surcharge is part of a concerted series of steps and should be viewed in context. Why can't I get $0.189/5.29 peso rate when I bring my dollars to the bank? Or to an officially licensed exchange house?
By all means, let's go for the real-world approach and let the official exchange rate float free. But you have to do it for everything, not just when people are trying to go from pesos to dollars on their Argentine credit cards.
Ultimately, I'm not advocating for the gov. to go 4.6 on both sides of the exchange (although under current policy if the official rate is 4.6, then, well, ummm.... you should be able to transact either direction at around 4.6). Instead, I'm advocating for the gov. to abandon the official rate and let the value of the peso be determined by the market.
If tomorrow they announced a 15% increase in the official rate to 5.29 (for dollar->peso exchange and not just peso->dollar exchange) then we would be heading in the right direction. Of course that will not happen.
I understand your agita at the increased cost of foreign credit card purchases, but be realistic. It's not a question of the central bank of Argentina giving you 4.6 pesos for your dollars. What you mean to say is that until now you only had to pay 4.60 pesos for each US$ charged to your Arg bank issued card for purchase made outside Arg. In essence, the central bank was selling you dollars for 4.6 pesos. Now you have to pay 5.29 pesos for each US$ and maybe a bit less than that as you are promised a tax benefit.[/quote]anjuna11 said:If the central bank of Argentina wants to give me 4.60 pesos for my dollars when I use my cc, they better give me $0.217 for my pesos when I exchange them (allowing for a reasonable 3-5% spread for transaction cost and profit of providing the exchange service).
This seems so basic as to not even require stating, but in this day and age apparently this is a principle worth elucidating in Argentina. Seems fair to sell pesos at 4.6 to the dollar and sell dollars at 5.29 to the peso...
Why is the sky blue? First off, you don't want 5.29 pesos for each of your dollars. You want 6.37 pesos. What you mean to say, again, is that you want to be able to buy dollars for 4.6 pesos. So does everyone in the world, but they can't.anjuna11 said:
Context? You want context? Here is the context. When an Arg cardholder makes a US$ denominated purchase in NYC, VISA or MasterCard International pays those dollars to the seller/merchant's bank. Then they seek to collect those US$ from the card issuer's bank. VISA and MasterCard will not accept less than the real market wholesale price for the US$, 6.37 pesos. That is what the Arg bank has to pay for each US$ it is billed for. If the Arg bank were then to debit the cardholder's account only 4.60 per US$, it is going to lose lots of money.
It is the Arg government that doesn't want to let the peso float free. If it did, it is my understanding that it would have to pay the bondholders 6.37 for each dollar of bond debt. Once the bonds are out of the picture, I believe there will be an official devaluation though not to 6.37. It should be happening soon.anjuna11 said:By all means, let's go for the real-world approach and let the official exchange rate float free. But you have to do it for everything, not just when people are trying to go from pesos to dollars on their Argentine credit cards.
Ultimately, I'm not advocating for the gov. to go 4.6 on both sides of the exchange (although under current policy if the official rate is 4.6, then, well, ummm.... you should be able to transact either direction at around 4.6). Instead, I'm advocating for the gov. to abandon the official rate and let the value of the peso be determined by the market. Obviously, this would not be 4.6.
It seems to me you guys are using the word surcharge incorrectly. It is a tax, plain and simple. A surcharge would be something the bank levies...this is a credit card usage tax that can than be treated as a tax credit for Ganancias or Bienes Personales.
Basically the 15% will be calculated and separated on your CC statement, and you will then submit a Sworn Statement (DDJJ), and pay less in ganancias (income tax) the next month, or couple of months. You can also choose to apply it to Personal Goods tax, if you own a house, car, etc.
Acording to the little information there is so far, if you are not in the tax bracket (over 144.000 a year) to pay ganancias, you will have to file a different DDJJ with the AFIP and get a refund (or the bank removes the charge, dont think it is completely decided yet...)
Basically the 15% will be calculated and separated on your CC statement, and you will then submit a Sworn Statement (DDJJ), and pay less in ganancias (income tax) the next month, or couple of months. You can also choose to apply it to Personal Goods tax, if you own a house, car, etc.
Acording to the little information there is so far, if you are not in the tax bracket (over 144.000 a year) to pay ganancias, you will have to file a different DDJJ with the AFIP and get a refund (or the bank removes the charge, dont think it is completely decided yet...)
An exchange where Bob gives Jane X pesos and Jane gives Bob Y dollars can be described in any number of equivalent ways:
1. Bob gets Y dollars for X pesos
2. Jane gets X pesos for Y dollars
3. Bob buys Y dollars at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
4. Bob sells X pesos at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
5. Jane buys X pesos at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
6. Jane sells Y dollars at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
All of these phrases describe the same concept. Prunes61, When you post 'what you meant to say was THIS not THAT', you have swapped btw. word choices but have not changed the meaning nor the concept under discussion.
If you prefer the sell/buy word choice to the give/receive word choice, re-read this (sarcastic) statement which describes what the gov. is doing at the exchange houses (1st part of quote) and on credit card transactions (2nd part of quote)
1. Bob gets Y dollars for X pesos
2. Jane gets X pesos for Y dollars
3. Bob buys Y dollars at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
4. Bob sells X pesos at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
5. Jane buys X pesos at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
6. Jane sells Y dollars at Y/X dollars per peso (or X/Y pesos per dollar)
All of these phrases describe the same concept. Prunes61, When you post 'what you meant to say was THIS not THAT', you have swapped btw. word choices but have not changed the meaning nor the concept under discussion.
If you prefer the sell/buy word choice to the give/receive word choice, re-read this (sarcastic) statement which describes what the gov. is doing at the exchange houses (1st part of quote) and on credit card transactions (2nd part of quote)
anjuna11 said:
