2 tourists shot outside Faena Hotel P. Madero

[Rich One]

I wonder if you also noted that the gang was discovered when a biker courageously interrupted another motochorro robbery and then passers by as I understand held him while the police were called. Each and every one of these could have been shot or knifed but their intervention led to rapid detection of the hideout and then apprehension of the girlfriend who told them about the Salta entry exit hence the bus arrests. It is not clear that your claim 'most tourists in the past' who resisted 'got seriously injured or dead'. How do you know? Let's assume a simple figure of one thousand attempts and lets assume most tourists dont understand why they shouldnt resist so say (conservative) 300 resist.
We know that the numbers of seriously injured or dead is probably 5-10 fatalities at most per annum of foreign tourists and at most 20-50 serious injury (which seems a pretty wild overestimate but so be it), therefore most resistance is not inevitably met by severe consequences as far as we know or the media would be full of it. Anecdotally I know several argentine and tourist friends who say they best defence is to seem to be strong and fit - classic animal defence - and when clearly being followed by two guys at San Juan subte who looked like they were predators I walked into the light and stood my ground on a corner, as my best option. They turned around and walked in the opposite direction, for whatever reason. A visiting couple of girlfriends said similarly they dont show fear or surrender for the same reason.
So the advice of giving over valuables is probably good in many cases where you know what your options are but other kinds of action are possible and in this airport case resistance and intervention had positive consequences as well as negative ones.
So in contrast to you I hope others find the courage to take justice into their hands when dire necessity of defending oneself or others seems to require it.

Scenario 2:
The Brits, in this case, hand out their valuables without resistance , another mugging without consequences..! the robbers escape..!

The Negative consequences by far outweigh the Positive ones IMHO . And in the Gibbard's family Opinion..!

I have stated my opinion .. I rest my Case

Next time you get mugged get carried away by anger, resit and beat up the assailants..!

PS: Perhaps arrivals at Ezeiza should be handed a leaflet indicating that in case of muggings should surrender their belongings peacefully

 

[mc kenna]

Yeah, as good as that sound, i have always had trouble surrendering......i.m just not good at it

 

[Joglide]

Scenario 2:
The Brits, in this case, hand out their valuables without resistance , another mugging without consequences..! the robbers escape..!

The Negative consequences by far outweigh the Positive ones IMHO . And in the Gibbard's family Opinion..!

I have stated my opinion .. I rest my Case

Next time you get mugged get carried away by anger, resit and beat up the assailants..!

PS: Perhaps arrivals at Ezeiza should be handed a leaflet indicating that in case of muggings should surrender their belongings peacefully

Agree on advice and agree in most cases sensible. I was furious with my attackers not because of a chain but because they were willing to choke me to get it until I fought back. I was trying to say you cannot rely on the robbers and assailants to be rational, reasonable and consistent: they may be on drugs, they may panic (as in P M), they may as in London simply kill people because they would be identified, they may attack for sex etc. So I am saying once again deterrence may be more effective than surrender to protect your safety. And also violence with robbery whether resistance is offered or not is a constant risk, especially if you are drunk. Not sure what your fiinal advice means 'resit' 'resist'? If I get attacked violently I am more likely to resist than allow myself to be severely hurt. Other people need to decide. Hope the taxis are safe for those who avoid the street!

 

[on the brink]

It is time that we the victims started fighting back when in danger. Often, just shrieking hysterically can do the trick.

Recently, my neighbor, a slight woman in her sixties, was watering her sidewalk planters when two muggers held her at knife point. She turned the hose on them and they were so surprised that they fled.

Another friend was held up with a gun while opening the door to her house. She was ordered to let them in but, realizing she would be pressured to give up any valuables (she had none), she decided she'd rather be shot in the sidewalk than raped and tortured at home.

She started screaming at the top of her lungs until neighbors came to their windows and out on the sidewalk, and the assailants jumped in their car and fled.

So, to paraphrase the Borg, resistance is NOT futile.

 

[semigoodlookin]

It is time that we the victims started fighting back when in danger. Often, just shrieking hysterically can do the trick.

Recently, my neighbor, a slight woman in her sixties, was watering her sidewalk planters when two muggers held her at knife point. She turned the hose on them and they were so surprised that they fled.

Another friend was held up with a gun while opening the door to her house. She was ordered to let them in but, realizing she would be pressured to give up any valuables (she had none), she decided she'd rather be shot in the sidewalk than raped and tortured at home.

She started screaming at the top of her lungs until neighbors came to their windows and out on the sidewalk, and the assailants jumped in their car and fled.

So, to paraphrase the Borg, resistance is NOT futile.

I do get what you're saying, but isn't it missing the point that in many cases people are killed when they fight back? And yes, I accept that sometimes they kill you anyway, but I just don't see how fighting back is good advice for the average person. A few years ago a black belt in tae kwon do was mugged and knocked one person out. However, he was promptly killed by the second. He must have felt great for the 3 seconds between knocking the guy out and being murdered. Btw, I am someone who has fought back against muggers in other countries and it worked, and in the heat of the moment I am likely to do the same again. Still, I can't say it is good advice.

And the Borg should have come up with a new catchphrase after the first few times the Federation resisted and was successful in doing so (not to mention species 8472). Not futlie indeed.

 

[camel]

I always wear my chabón uniform when I fly into Ezeiza

 

[Brit_In_BA]

I read somewhere that muggers are experts at reading body language. People who tiptoe timidly right next to buildings are mugged more often than those who stride down the center of the sidewalk, messaging: "I OWN this space"

Absolutely. Walk everywhere with a f**k off attitude and a “determined” look in your eye, but if you’re ever held up, especially by a chorro with a gun, hand over your stuff, always. Doesn’t make you less of a man for surrendering, just wise, and someone that values life and has perspective

 

[Rich One]

Resisting and attack is always dangerous , an innocent 15 year old with a knife can produce serious injury. A friend was stabbed with a screwdriver that punctured his liver , he was in a hospital for quite a while...!

Deterrence is the best protection, my insurance is taking an UBER $150 pesos for a few blocks, is the best insurance at night .. Never walk at night ..

 

[on the brink]

I do get what you're saying, but isn't it missing the point that in many cases people are killed when they fight back? And yes, I accept that sometimes they kill you anyway, but I just don't see how fighting back is good advice for the average person. A few years ago a black belt in tae kwon do was mugged and knocked one person out. However, he was promptly killed by the second. He must have felt great for the 3 seconds between knocking the guy out and being murdered. Btw, I am someone who has fought back against muggers in other countries and it worked, and in the heat of the moment I am likely to do the same again. Still, I can't say it is good advice.

And the Borg should have come up with a new catchphrase after the first few times the Federation resisted and was successful in doing so (not to mention species 8472). Not futlie indeed.

Nice to find a fellow Trekkie in this board....!

Now, to clarify my post. The two women I mentioned were being forced into their own homes, where the muggers could do whatever they pleased - torture, rape, murder, you name it - with total impunity. So they decided they stood a better chance of survival if they resisted.

I will not fight over a watch, or a phone, but I think I would fight against letting thugs into my home.

 

[Joglide]

I do get what you're saying, but isn't it missing the point that in many cases people are killed when they fight back? And yes, I accept that sometimes they kill you anyway, but I just don't see how fighting back is good advice for the average person. A few years ago a black belt in tae kwon do was mugged and knocked one person out. However, he was promptly killed by the second. He must have felt great for the 3 seconds between knocking the guy out and being murdered. Btw, I am someone who has fought back against muggers in other countries and it worked, and in the heat of the moment I am likely to do the same again. Still, I can't say it is good advice.

And the Borg should have come up with a new catchphrase after the first few times the Federation resisted and was successful in doing so (not to mention species 8472). Not futlie indeed.

Good points and sane advice though I think resistance can be understood as part of a wider cultural change. Forty years ago New York had become simply an awful plan to live in or travel to safely. Muggings and serious assaults - people bashed and then handbags stolen or wallets taken. People were not only aggressive in the subway but urinating openly in the subway cabs and people would hassle you for change on main streets (not beg but come in your face). The people and authorities decided it had to change and voted in the zero tolerance of crime and bad behaviour. The police was pressured to not merely Kojak arrest serious crime but maintain good public order and confront people behaving badly - even before cctv cameras were around a lot. Result was that in a decade NYC had changed. Everywhere in the centre behaviour had improved and you could even walk in central park in the early evening safely. The ethos was "look out for your neighbour" and support the police in maintaining order. In BA a similar cultural change may be needed whereby the police have to embrace their responsibilities more actively and build a new trust with people, and people assume more responsibility for each other. This is possible: the conduct on the subte in terms of respect for older people, people with children etc is still there and portenos are good people. Vigilante action to stop crime cannot do it but collective refusal to accept that crime is everywhere and has to be accepted and surrendered to could be the way forward?