advice on rental agreement

[creyescruz]

Hi, I need some advice about my rental agreement. It states that my rent is $500 US a month. It also states that pay the "dolar informal' rate (5.93) which makes my next rental payment for 3 months $8895. I would rather pay by bank transfer so I can be sure to pay no more than $500 per month, or $1500 for 3 months. But, as a foreigner, I can't take out US bills, and they say they can't do bank transfer (not sure if that's true or not since in one email they said this was possible, then said it wasn't a few emails later), which means I have to withdraw money from the ATM to pay the $8895 which, according to the official rate, and my bank statement, is actually closer to $2000 US!!!!!

Does anyone have any advice for me? I hear it's illegal to put the price in US$ in the contract. Is there anything I can do about that? Also, why do I have to pay the 'dolar informal' rate rather than the official rate? I mean, my agreement is to pay $500 a month. But by forcing me to go with the informal rate they are also forcing me to actually pay $650 a month!! HELP!!!

 

[Davidglen77]

Did you sign the contract yet?

 

[creyescruz]

I signed one 3 months ago, with these terms, and they want me to sign another one tomorrow, same terms...

 

[el_expatriado]

Nothing you can do if you want to keep renting that apartment. You need to take a hard line when negotiating. They are Argentines, they are dealing with foreigners, so they should know better than you how to get ahold of dollars in Argentina.

I would tell them that you agree on the price in USD, but it is their responsibility to find a cueva where you can transfer dollars from the USA and make them accept the bank transfer. And if they say no, be prepared to move out.

 

[dennisr]

Thought that if a rental contact was negotiated in a foreign currency the official published rate must be used?

http://translate.google.com/transla...a.com/contenidos/2012/01/03/noticia_0067.html

http://www.cronista.com/contenidos/2012/01/03/noticia_0067.html

 

[el_expatriado]

Thought that if a rental contact was negotiated in a foreign currency the official published rate must be used?

http://translate.google.com/transla...a.com/contenidos/2012/01/03/noticia_0067.html

http://www.cronista.com/contenidos/2012/01/03/noticia_0067.html

You're assuming these guys are trying to follow the law, which they are not. They are renting out to expats and not paying any taxes. They are also renting out for less than 2 years, which is also not permitted. I'm pretty sure you can't rent out residential property in dollars either, but don't quote me on that.

But all of this happens because the court system doesn't work. People just do what they want. That's why I am saying that since these guys are wanting the informal dollar rate, they should do the work of finding a cueva that will take the transfer from the USA. If they are dealing with the black market economy, they will be able to arrange this.

 

[solerboy]

You are in a lucky position, as your contract has to be signed tomorrow, you are now fully aware of the terms of the contract and its cost to you. Also remember that the peso may get devalued in the near future so you situation will get worse.

If you dont like the terms of a contract, walk away, dont sign it, offer alernative terms. If the owner of the property will not compromise then walk way. Simple.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

... That's why I am saying that since these guys are wanting the informal dollar rate, they should do the work of finding a cueva that will take the transfer from the USA. If they are dealing with the black market economy, they will be able to arrange this.

Yes, all corrrect. At the end of the day it's up to you (renter) whether or not you accept the contract with the stated terms. Some landlords work in the black and some don't. Both have pros and cons to you, the renter.

Personally, I would not sign a contract denominated in US Dollars - your rent will effectively be increasing as the Peso slides. The market is saturated with apartments at the moment. We've been looking at apartments in preparation for our move in a couple of months and I've seen the same apartments (decent rental rates in good condition) on the market for 90 days and more. You should be able to find landords willing to negotiate in $ARS.

Almost all contracts here require real property in Argentina to be put up as guarantee that you will move out when you say you will and not squat on the property as well as a 2-year contract. Both are difficult for the typical Expat. However, I did speak with a realtor last week who said they are working on a program that will replace the garantía with a system that seems to be a hybrid of a security deposit plus a payment structure similiar to an insurance plan. Not exactly sure how it will work. TBD.

When I first moved here in 2006 I negotiated directly with an apartment owner who let me rent his brand new property with a 12-month contract without a garantía. I put up 3 mos deposit, showed him my credit report from the US and my salary history. He went for it. Many won't but you never know.

Check out http://www.soloduenos.com.ar/ Be aware, some realtors list their properties here even though it is suposed to be only owners. If your Spanish is decent you might have a shot.

Hope this helps.

 

[Davidglen77]

If I were you I would sign the contract and then send the landlord a carta documento letting him/her know that what they did was illegal and that you will only pay him in pesos equal to the Banco Central published conversion rate. There is nothing he can do once you do that and residential rental contracts, are valid for 2 years EVEN if the landlord puts a different term in the rental contract and you sign it. In other words if the contract says 3 months, and you want to stay for 2 years the law will protect YOU! Read the "ley de alquileres 23091" Article #2 states the following:
"Para los contratos que se celebren a partir de la vigencia de la presente ley, el plazo mínimo de las locaciones con destino a vivienda, con o sin muebles, será de dos (2) años. Dicho plazo mínimo será de tres (3) años para los restantes destinos. Los contratos que se celebren por términos menores serán considerados como formulados por los plazos mínimos precedentemente fijados."
http://tododeiure.atspace.com/leyes/23091.htm

 

[sleslie23]

If I were you I would sign the contract and then send the landlord a carta documento letting him/her know that what they did was illegal and that you will only pay him in pesos equal to the Banco Central published conversion rate. There is nothing he can do once you do that and residential rental contracts, are valid for 2 years EVEN if the landlord puts a different term in the rental contract and you sign it. In other words if the contract says 3 months, and you want to stay for 2 years the law will protect YOU! Read the "ley de alquileres 23091" Article #2 states the following:
"Para los contratos que se celebren a partir de la vigencia de la presente ley, el plazo mínimo de las locaciones con destino a vivienda, con o sin muebles, será de dos (2) años. Dicho plazo mínimo será de tres (3) años para los restantes destinos. Los contratos que se celebren por términos menores serán considerados como formulados por los plazos mínimos precedentemente fijados."
http://tododeiure.atspace.com/leyes/23091.htm

No offense David, but this is bad advice. Nothing you say is wrong, but that kind of bravado posturing won't really make your life in Buenos Aires much easier. It would be one thing if the landlord were trying to cause problems after the contract were already signed but is not a good strategy for negotiating your rent up frotn. Personally, I wouldn't go looking for trouble, especially concerning the place where I sleep and keep all my stuff and even more so being a foreigner.

Also, as a foreigner, the law MAY protect you. But I wouldn't want to intentionally put myself in a position where I am depending on the law to protect me. There is just too much corruption, nepotism, etc. to depend on it.

The best advice has already been provided above, but I'll reiterate:

1) Avoid signing any contract in dollars (in addition to probably not being legal it will cost you more and more per month as the peso slides)

2) Offer an alternative to the landlord that you are comfortable with and see what they say. If they say no, be prepared to move. There are lots of apartments for rent.