Am I the only person in Argentina that finds the term "chinito" offensive?

[deadOA]

The way this 71 years old is treated shows vindictiveness let alone offensive aggressive arrogant rude intention. In context, he had no command of the language or the internet and probably vision problem.

I) unable to counter substantive points made over 20 pages of discussion.
Ii) takes a couple of out of context words to 'score points'

20 pages no one is defending pejorative terms. Deliberate bad intention taking it out of context. Or you suppose only you have the monopoly on context.

 

[London2Baires]

I said these words in general are used meaning no harm. I didn't say it was right or wrong. I expressed in my experience what some people addressed with these words think. I cannot generalize. I also stated that societies, culture and language need to evolve naturally and not be forced or censored. Words such as bitch and faggot are insults per se. I think you do not tolerate people having different opinions. You also use the term nationalist implying that it has negative connotations. I might be nationalist or not, and you don't know that, so you assume things without even asking. Sorry but I think you come out as defensive and narrow minded.

As has been said so many times already, but let me try again. It is the fact that certain members of society perpetuate and make excuses for these pejorative terms that they are problematic. They create social divides, and are loaded with a whole set of cultural value judgments. Just because individuals who use them are not being intentionally malicious, that doesn't take away from the harm.

Words like 'bitch' have many times been excused like this Nikad, defended as a value neutral culturally relative term. I.e. In particular sub culture x, the term is used as a term of endearment. The term has also been more widely applied as an insult of course. The same with terms like 'gay' and to a lesser degree 'faggot'. The N word also has clearly been defended in this way as alluded to by another forum poster earlier in this thread. To this day it's used and laughed about in some places in southern USA, just harmless fun they'd say.

So you are right. I am intolerant, of intolerance. Specially when it's aimed at minority communities who suffer tangible harm from the societal fallout. I think, as I have stated many times, that we shouldn't just say stuff like "pobre abuelita, dice negrita porque siempre se decia asi, no lo dice para discriminar!" We need to talk about the realities and trust that even abuelita can learn to be better and re evaluate mistaken longstanding uses of vocab.

I agree with you that censorship is not a good solution, I never said it was. Only one forum member did, and when challenged on providing more specifics on what exactly they meant, and what research they were referring to, didn't write back.

As a sidenote on your evident nationalism; I called you out as you (along with a few other members) had started making the argument that I, and others, couldn't talk about the Argentine use of the word chinito, as we were foreigners who didn't understand. We all apparently come from countries who are far more racist and worse (*see whataboutism), and that it was our cultural imperialism that was really the issue here.

That is a classic Nationalist move, it's textbook. I'd go as far as saying that to think about the world that way you'd have to be very nationalistic. So you should at least own it. You put it out there, its your belief, don't now feign ignorance.

 

[London2Baires]

The way this 71 years old is treated shows vindictiveness let alone offensive aggressive arrogant rude intention. In context, he had no command of the language or the internet and probably vision problem.



20 pages no one is defending pejorative terms. Deliberate bad intention taking it out of context. Or you suppose only you have the monopoly on context.

It's vindictive to explain why he/she was inadvertently shouting at us all? And I guess you've never seen any research on how certain generations have certain differences in ideological, political, and social views? How disingenuous.

Again, you avoid all of the substantive issues, its telling, but sure.

Have you read the 20 pages? lol

 

[citygirl]

I think of it this way. If someone is a guest in your home and they tell you they prefer to be called George not Georgie or blondie or gringo or whatever - if you call them anything else other than George, you're being impolite. I know from my non-white friends who lived in/visited Argentina - they found it 100% offensive being called some of the terms used here. It was rude, it was derogatory and in most cases - it was 100% wrong. Yes, most visitors or others living in Argentina will just shrug their shoulders and not argue when someone calls them something like that b/c a) they know it's futile and b) they may be polite enough to overlook it. It doesn't make using those words right. It just doesn't.

 

[London2Baires]

I (Nanu) did not try to argue. I was trying to have a conversation.....

I am very happy to engage and have a conversation with you.

I'd like to repost for you what was said earlier in regards to whataboutism as I think it goes to the way in which you made substantive point in your all caps posting.

Almost certainly unintentionally, you are in a sense 'missing the point'. Its not that the things you talk about are factually incorrect. Rather that they don't mean there is no problem with the word chinito, negrito , etc, here in Argentina.

Please let me know what you think, i've actually had this conversation with about 10-15 Argentine people in their 70-90's as it's a very common way of looking at things. I'd say that about 30% ended up re evaluating the use of these words after detailed and patient conversation. The others we ended up agreeing to disagree.

Sincerely.

whataboutism:

Whataboutism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ries]

I would point out- I am not trying to change Argentina.

The question the thread asked was "am I the only person in argentina the finds the term chinito offensive".

I do, and I said so.

my argentine friends ARE changing argentina, a day at a time. Young people (and I am not one, I am in my mid 60s) are not speaking the same way their elders do.

Again and again, though, I see everyday argentines who ARE hurt and offended by the way their countrymen talk.
And have also gotten pretty tired of the obliviousness.

Besides my previous examples of my friend who is Argentine of japanese descent, and my dozens of friends who are Argentine of the jewish faith, here is another one-

For some years now, my wife has been buying strings and twines for her work from a wholesaler (al mayor) in Once, run by a very nice Argentine man of Armenian heritage. He is in his 70s, at the youngest. His father most likely ran the business before him.
And, average, unthinking argentines routinely refer to him as a Turk.
The Turks massacred over 1 million Armenians early in the 20th century.
Needless to say, Armenians are not excited to be called Turks.
But it happens, daily.
Imagine if you called all Jews "Nazis", because its just part of the language, and everybody has always done it, and "nobody is offended".

Or, another friend of mine, who is from Egypt- but Jewish. He left Egypt in 62, when, he said to me, they started hanging Jews from the streetlight posts. And yet, he still gets called both a "Jude" and a "Turk" interchangeably.

Because its harmless tradition.

To quote Bob Dylan- You can do what you want Abe (and I, Ries, and not goint to stop you)
But when you see me coming, you better run.

That was as said by God, not me, or Dylan. At least in the song.

 

[camel]

All this discussion of political incorrectness reminded me of the old Devo video for Whip It:

 

[Idois]

Psychological reactance seems to be your way to justify censorship. In general I call that intellectual masturbation. You seem to be only concerned about winning a dialectic argument and your way of underestimating any opinions that do not match yours of censorship and cynical assumptions are lame. I don't recall you as my psychologist, you have no idea who I am or where I am coming from, yet you go on and on about me, my life, and the cleaning lady I never had. Life is too short, enjoy it ( and try to pass all your school tests by the " textbook" , btw going by the textbook and lack of empathy make mediocre shrinks )

Here we go....
Please, someone, help! Bring out the diapers!

 

[deadOA]

It's vindictive to explain why he/she was inadvertently shouting at us all?

In context Argentines liberally use upper case all the time. Besides he/she explained might have vision problems. Yet was viciously attacked. Still being attacked now even after knowing the context of his/her circumstance. Out of context, like the rest of the 20 pages, claiming he/she shouting, The poor soul is almost pleading! As if he is the offensive one.
But hey, only you have the monopoly on context.

... certain generations ...

You can´t help yourself.

Can an arrogant preach any good? Even if it is good.

 

[nanu]

In context Argentines liberally use upper case all the time. Besides he/she explained might have vision problems. Yet was viciously attacked. Still being attacked now even after knowing the context of his/her circumstance. Out of context, like the rest of the 20 pages, claiming he/she shouting, The poor soul is almost pleading! As if he is the offensive one.
But hey, only you have the monopoly on context.



You can´t help yourself.

Can an arrogant preach any good? Even if it is good.

Yes, I agree, there's discrimination in Argentina. We hope it will end with time.