American Expatriation Guide

[Choripán]

My point was that it's great if you live there and taxes are low - sucks if you don't live there and pay taxes for nothing. It may be a "low price" if you are living abroad, but on that same line of thinking, citizenship for other countries (like in Europe) are "free"!

Chances are that you are not in fact paying something for nothing. Many people hold this false belief. U.S. government services suffuse practically every aspect of our lives, often in ways we don't even realize. If you really are completely removed from America - no bank accounts there, never travel there, never conduct business there - then in fact you ought to consider renouncing your citizenship. I don't mean this as a piece of argumentative snark. What's the point of retaining citizenship under conditions of utter dissociation? But if you are hanging on the the *option* of using your rights of citizenship some day, then you damn well need to be a paying member of the club. The fairways must be mowed and the greens watered even if you don't plan on playing a round this year. Government, like any business, has significant overhead. You can't just turn it on when you want it and off when you don't. Believe me, if we could do that, you wouldn't be the only one refusing to pay taxes just because *you* have concluded that you don't consume enough services.

 

[Rad]

garbage...
Of course you always have the option to quit - now THAT would have been a choice! But choice is beside the point.
more garbage...

The option to quit and how to do it is exactly the point of this topic.

 

[amat]

Chances are that you are not in fact paying something for nothing. Many people hold this false belief. U.S. government services suffuse practically every aspect of our lives, often in ways we don't even realize. If you really are completely removed from America - no bank accounts there, never travel there, never conduct business there - then in fact you ought to consider renouncing your citizenship. I don't mean this as a piece of argumentative snark. What's the point of retaining citizenship under conditions of utter dissociation? But if you are hanging on the the *option* of using your rights of citizenship some day, then you damn well need to be a paying member of the club. The fairways must be mowed and the greens watered even if you don't plan on playing a round this year. Government, like any business, has significant overhead. You can't just turn it on when you want it and off when you don't. Believe me, if we could do that, you wouldn't be the only one refusing to pay taxes just because *you* have concluded that you don't consume enough services.

Choripan, then I guess we agree that expats that are not from the US are better off in that they get something for nothing.

utter dissociation is not the case. My point was that if being a US expat was the same as being a French/Irish/English/most countries expat, it would mean more freedom regarding having to report back and potentially pay taxes to a country you don't currently live in.
Anyone who emmigrates from any country and keeps their citizenship/passport is "hanging on to the *option* of using their citizenship someday". It's just that for those who emmigrate from the US potentially pay for that option where others don't.

But that's not going to change and in fact looks like it's going to get more strict. So Rad's point is that some people might want to know how to get out of that situation.

And until we're making tons of $$$, it doesn't really matter to us in the end.

 

[citygirl]

If someone is that upset about it, then obviously s/he has the choice to renounce US citizenship. No one is stopping anyone from doing so.

If not, then one pays the price. Sure it would be great if we didn't have to pay taxes when we're out of the country (although many countries tax their citizens on worldwide income and you do in fact get an exemption if your tax home is in another country up to 90K something - maybe 92K?) but as stated, if you want the rights and services afforded to a US Citizen, you have to pay the price.

Really quite simple. If you don't want to pay, renounce your citizenship. But if you think taxes are bad in the US - wait until you pay them here

 

[Choripán]

Renouncing your citizenship does not mean that you hate the country.

Actually I think the point of that article, and your thread, is to advocate expatriation as a vehicle to avoid paying for government services to anyone, anywhere. It's a free-loaders guide to the universe.

Lee's claim that he had no choice in becoming an American citizen, like the anonymous author's preposterous claim that expatriots are taxed without representation, was nothing more than rhetorical nonsense - that is, besides the point. The fact is that you want the services government provides but don't want to pay your fair share of the costs. THAT is the point.

So once you're no longer a US citizen, do you plan on paying taxes to another sovereign power? Or is your goal to dodge responsibility to any government? Why do I feel we already know the answer to this question.

 

[Choripán]

No sir I do not pout.

Bitching about the tragedy of being born America sure does sound like it. But I'll take your clarification at face value.

I can complain about how my tax dollars are spent certainly.

For sure. One of the things you pay for as an American citizen is the protection of our fundamental rights, especially free speech. Ever wondered what the DOJ's rights enforcement bureau's annual budget is? That's part of what you're paying for while you're living in Buenos Aires. Money well spent.

I do pay my taxes and I do so every year.

Glad to hear it. Again, you make it sound like paying taxes some kind of gift your giving to your fellow citizens. You are paying for what you consume. It's a moral obligation not (only) because it's the law, but because you should always pay for what you consume. It really is that simple.

 

[Rad]

Garbage...
Or is your goal to dodge responsibility to any government? Why do I feel we already know the answer to this question.

Since I am not a serf, I don't consider paying taxes a responsibility. I do pay taxes only to avoid jail.

 

[Choripán]

Since I am not a serf, I don't consider paying taxes a responsibility. I do pay taxes only to avoid jail.

A serf? Ha! You Hayekians are quite the joke. As if simply paying for the services you consume in a fully democratic society were somehow morally equivalent to feudalism. The road to serfdom? Rhetorical nonsense and you know better.

What you are: a fucking free-loader. You make others pay your way and call it freedom. Like your some kind of civil rights activist. Laughable.

Once again we have living proof that there is no such thing as an intellectually honest conservative. They make shit up in order to disguise base selfishness and other fundamental defects of character. It's never about the ideas; it's always about getting what they want and making others pay for it.

You bitch about the U.S. government like a teenager bitching about his overly demanding mother. And then of course you will run home to mommy the minute life gets a little tough for you. My guess is that you know the value of U.S. citizenship and thus don't have the balls to renounce it. But feel free to prove me wrong!

 

[Rad]

A serf? Ha! You Hayekians are quite the joke. As if simply paying for the services you consume in a fully democratic society were somehow morally equivalent to feudalism. The road to serfdom? Rhetorical nonsense and you know better.

If you like being a serf, that's fine with me. It's your choice. I hope that your democratic society votes and agrees on taxing everyone who calls himself Choripán a special 100% income tax.

What you are: a fucking free-loader. You make others pay your way and call it freedom. Like your some kind of civil rights activist. Laughable.

Nonsense. Only government employees are free loaders, because they get paid from my taxes for work I did not ask them to do.

Once again we have living proof that there is no such thing as an intellectually honest conservative. Garbage...

Ad hominem...

I don't care. I am not a conservative.