American facing extradition from Argentina for murder

[gouchobob]

Are you for real or are you really so gullible to believe all that is written ? Tell me Mr Bob how did Building 7 collapse? It was not touched by a plane and collapsed in 30 minutes? We await your response

I'm not talking about bldg 7, only that it's a lot more logical to believe that the guy made all this up to avoid prosecution. The whole story sounds completely implausible to me, some low level government employee was allowed to photograph all these supposed secrets of the governments involvement even though this was supposed to be kept a secret. He then somehow manages to leave the country with all his tapes intact. Of course these tapes can't be released as they might be altered even though it's been almost ten years after the event. It's complete non-sense.

 

[orwellian]

I don't want to get into the whole wtc7 thing, but a couple of observations. The building blazed without firefighters for the whole day....that doesn't happen in normal circumstances. At least...I'm led to believe that's what happened.

It wasn't blazing. There were a few minor fires that could be seen on a few floors from one side of the building:

Compare that to the Hotel Mandarin Fire (that never collapsed):

plus, yes, I think there's a chance they pulled the building as it was becoming unsafe. That doesn't mean Sept 11th dawned with WTC7 filled to the gills with explosives which some crackpots would have you believe.

Yes that is what would be the most plausible explanation. The problem with that though is that it takes week to prepare something like this. You don't just do it under a few hours, especially not in a building that is on fire.
Check out what this dutch demolition expert has to say about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6D4dla17aA

 

[esllou]

Yes that is what would be the most plausible explanation. The problem with that though is that it takes week to prepare something like this. You don't just do it under a few hours, especially not in a building that is on fire.
Check out what this dutch demolition expert has to say about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6D4dla17aA

so, ok, we return to my original question (which is the reason I asked it). Let's assume that wtc7 was filled with construction explosives. Fine.

right, what about the twin towers and the planes? Were they real...was it just a coincidence? Were they holograms? Were they flown by CIA operatives?

this is where the whole 9-11 conspiracy stuff starts to unravel.

Pentagon too...all the stuff about missiles, stolen CCTV footage and you've got a thousand witnesses in their cars all saying "erm, it was a big fuck off jumbo jet...I saw it". One old granny says "hey, it was something really fast, like a jet or missile" and that's the one testimony that everyone jumps on.

 

[citygirl]

Well, one - most highrise fires don't coincide with severe structural damage from surrounding collapsing buliding so no,you can't compare it to other highrise fires. Have any of you read the report that came out from the NIST? It basically outlined design flaws in the building (as the damage occurred and fires began - and there were fires observed on multiple floors after the building was abandoned by mid morning) - the internal support pillars began to collapse and the remaining pillars were not able to bear the weight.

And the demolition hypothesis was pretty soundly rejected since there was no window blasts nor noise concurrent with the collapse. And since pretty much every media outlet was there, it isn't exactly undocumented.

 

[orwellian]

what about the twin towers and the planes? Were they real...was it just a coincidence? Were they holograms? Were they flown by CIA operatives?

Yes they were real. No they weren't holograms. And no, they were probably not flown by the CIA.
They could have actually been remotely controlled from WTC7, where we know they had a command center. But that's just speculation.

Pentagon too...all the stuff about missiles, stolen CCTV footage and you've got a thousand witnesses in their cars all saying "erm, it was a big fuck off jumbo jet...I saw it". One old granny says "hey, it was something really fast, like a jet or missile" and that's the one testimony that everyone jumps on.

The Pentagon "no plane" theory I think is government disinformation. They confiscated the CCTV footage and released those 4 frames (that do not show an airplane), to boost these theories within the 9/11 truth movement.
The problem with this "no plane" theory is that there are several credible witnesses that actually saw a Boeing airplane hit the Pentagon.

What is interesting about the Pentagon attack is the difficult turn the pilot completed just before slamming into the Pentagon, inches of the ground. However flew that airplane that hit the Pentagon, it definitely could not have have been done by a person who had problem landing a small Cessna aircraft.

 

[orwellian]

Well, one - most highrise fires don't coincide with severe structural damage from surrounding collapsing buliding so no,you can't compare it to other highrise fires.

Severe damage is as much as a exaggeration as the building blazing with fire. Besides it doesn't matter. Damage to one side of the building cannot cause such a collapse.

Have any of you read the report that came out from the NIST? It basically outlined design flaws in the building (as the damage occurred and fires began - and there were fires observed on multiple floors after the building was abandoned by mid morning) - the internal support pillars began to collapse and the remaining pillars were not able to bear the weight.

Well some people believe in Santa Clause, WMD and the NIST report. I don't. And discussing here it is way too offtopic.

And the demolition hypothesis was pretty soundly rejected since there was no window blasts nor noise concurrent with the collapse. And since pretty much every media outlet was there, it isn't exactly undocumented.

Well why do we have a dutch demolition expert on tape saying he is 100% sure that it was controlled demolition and that it is a classic case of it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6D4dla17aA

Here's a few others:
http://demolitionexpertsquestion911.blogspot.com/

 

[French jurist]

There were no explosives and it's the plane and nothing else that hit the Pentagon.

Like I said, it's very interesting to see how those conspiracy theories distract the interest from the strangest aspects of those attacks.

Did any serious enquiry took place as to understand why the intelligence was not taken into consideration ? (the apprentice pilots were noticed, US government was warned about possible hijackings attacks, etc... This has been proven)

Was it simply, it could be, a major failure of the US intelligence ?
Or is the truth a bit more complex than that like the US government knew something was coming, and let it happen so that it could be the pretext to gain control of oil reserves + take more control of the middle east + prepare the future controlling energy and doing so have some power against China, etc etc... ?

I sincerely could see the US government (or any government... Read Machiavel) doing so, but if that's the truth, did they foresee that the terrorist attacks would be so devastating, I doubt... That's how a possible truth could be very very special.

As for JFK, we don't know the truth, but is it that crazy to imagine that the weapons lobby (anywhere in the world in fact, not focusing on the US) has the power to kill a politician, even if he is President (doing so could even be considered "patriotic" by some I am afraid).

In every country there are "strange" deaths, just to mention a few cases in my country :
- Robert Boulin, minister, who suicided himself drowning into an 8 inches deep pond
- the "Markovic" affair & death : some photos were circulating showing the wife of former primer minister Pompidou engaged in groupsex with Alain Delon.
- the "suicide" of François de Grossouvre.

I could mention the UK too with the "suicide" of this scientist in the context of the Iraq war. He had warned before hand he was not suicidal and that if he was to be found "suicided" it would be in fact an assassination.

Etc etc...

We, all of us, "basic people" live in a world quite different from a few others, or more exactely, a few people in the world live in a very different world than we do !
That's where Wikileaks can be a very good thing (anyway Wikileaks will disappear sooner or later, you can bet on that ! Or better, it won't appear to be disappearing but will be emptied from its interest. How I don't know, yet).

 

[French jurist]

What is interesting about the Pentagon attack is the difficult turn the pilot completed just before slamming into the Pentagon, inches of the ground. However flew that airplane that hit the Pentagon, it definitely could not have have been done by a person who had problem landing a small Cessna aircraft.

I must admit this is an interesting aspect. It was the plane and nothing else, that's for sure (1000s of witnesses anyway).
But I wonder (any pilots here ?? Where is our Belgian friend ?) if a rookie pilot who doesn't know how to land a Cessna could have done it. Was he very lucky or maybe isn't it that hard to fly a boeing in such a approach and into a hit ?

 

[esllou]

FJ, that's as far as my belief in 911 conspiracy theories go...that Bush, Cheney, etc knew it was coming and decided to let it happen because they knew there could be massive policy advantages from that.

all the stuff about explosives, holograms, building detonations, etc just detracts from that. Which is maybe, as orwellian said, why it's also feasible that the nutjob conspiracy stuff is/was encouraged by various elements.

sure the truth will out some day.

 

[orwellian]

Like I said, it's very interesting to see how those conspiracy theories distract the interest from the strangest aspects of those attacks.

That's classic disinformation and the CIA is pretty good at it (not saying that they did this though). And it works well, it has completely split the 9/11 truth movement in half. And it's making the job, of the so called 9/11 debunkers, very easy.

Did any serious enquiry took place as to understand why the intelligence was not taken into consideration ? (the apprentice pilots were noticed, US government was warned about possible hijackings attacks, etc... This has been proven)

If they weren't complicit this is what we would expect to happen. For example, someone should have been reprimanded in the intelligence community for not heeding the several warnings that were given to them. And people within the air-force should have been reprimanded for giving the stand down order and not intercepting the hijacked airplanes.