Argentina; land of the selfish

[nikad]

I agree with you too.

 

[chris]

The monotributo/autonomo systems require 30 years minimum in the system to get any pension. I have contributed thousands of pesos to these plans and will not get a penny in return. This is correct information - I have checked it out.

 

[Mitch]

As
to the comment about Argentinians who are living abroad, they whine and
wail as any expat here....about taxes, politics, etc. Many would like
to return to live in BA..... but earning US salaries....and enjoying
the buying power of the dollar. Nice dream, but not very
practical...... until you retire.

Not only do the Argentines in the US whine about everything there, but also their relatives back home... Even when they live on money that comes from the US...
If they hate America so much, why don't they reject it?

 

[bf4]

Mitch,
"the comment about Argentinians who are living abroad, they whine and
wail as any expat here....about taxes, politics, etc. Many would like
to return to live in BA..... but earning US salaries....and enjoying
the buying power of the dollar. Nice dream, but not very
practical...... until you retire"

Please don't on earth generalize I lived for three years in the USA, had the possibility to stay, not on EARTH, would i have extended my stay for another one.
Here's a list of some (among many other)reasons:
I couldn't imagine marrying an american (I'm sorry guys!). I guess that americans must feel the same way towards argentine women. I am not going to discuss what blood we have or don't, my great great parents came from Italy, but blood apart, the average argentine- mapuche or half european- eats better, has better manners at the table, knows more about the world (the world being not only USA), and has read a little more (maybe has ventured a little further than the USA Today), not to speak that dresses a little more conservative specially when travelling .Couldn't you impose a dress code when travelling on planes consisting on wearing shirts or tshirts that cover men's "chivos"? Americans have so many dress codes at their workplaces that when they don't work they think that they can hang around as if they were at home. Ooops......Maybe I'm a littlesuperficial but I have had my share of american wearing flipflops, shirts showing what they shouldn't be showing at airports, birkenstocks, yes I do believe in ETIQUETTE.....
I couldn't imagine my children cheerleading
I couldn't imagine my children leaving their family home at age 18
I couldn't imagine living in a country where it is legal to spy on its citizens
But least that all what made me really really depressed was what Mrxyz (whose name I can't remeber) was whining about: NOISE, ENERGY, LIFE
I can't bear life with such uniformity from clothes(I can pinpoint an american miles away dressed in chinos and loafers(formal version), informal already described supra above), points of view, homes (american suburbs make me cry-with those pulte houses one so similar to the other, the same floor plan, god how can you tell one from another, and I'm not fooling), to mega SUVS, cities all so similar one to each other crisscrossed by huge I95s
Would I bear all this for you say it x million dollars?
No way my dear, when I got to BA and faced the piqueteros, noise and garbage, I couldn't help but exclaiming
Home sweet Home!
Mitch: Try as far as it is possible not to show the less favorable american aspect: We are the best, USA is the best place to live
As I described SOBRE GUSTOS NO HAY NADA ESCRITO
For those of you who dislike noise, energy, people who don't apologize when they bump into you (but then don't visit Manhattan either), CRAZY DRIVERS, ATENCAO, TAKE THE FIRST AMERICAN, DELTA OR EVEN AEROLINEAS ARGENTINAS TICKET TO YOUR COUNTRY
For those of you who enjoy these characteristics of BA, then you could also try ROME, city I love and that in some ways reminded me of the chaos of BA and of the openess of the people and where I wouldn't feel depayse.
Bonne soiree mes cheries!

 

[Grazie]

bf4,
change in caption...nice touch.
After imploring the forum not to generalize, you yourself did exactly that. Isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black?
I believe it was Gandhi that said, You must be the change you want to see in the world.
Grazie

 

[chris]

bf4, There is some truth in what you say but you paint with a very broad brush. Surely you could have found, in major metropolitan areas, educated Americans who dress well, have good table manners and live in attractive homes, etc? The US is a big country with lots of money circulating. Unlike most countries of the world, "blue collar" people can earn a lot of money and are a lot more visible than they might be in more elitist countries with smaller economies. They can eat in restaurants, travel abroad, etc. If we are going to compare Americans with the people of Recoleta/Barrio Norte we have to compare apples with apples, not oranges. Compare the residents of tne best parts of New York, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. and other big cities. You'll find them radically different from what you have described in your post!

 

[Bill]

Wow, this is certainly an active topic, which it good, since it let's people state their opinions and rant a bit.

For myself, I came to Argentina for something different from my normal life and found that (somewhat). I don't complain too much about life here because this is "how it is" and that's the beauty. Is it for me? No. I don't fit here and never will.

Regarding the selfish thing... I don't find it such a problem although I suppose being selfish is always a problem. The way I see it in Latin America is that you have to look after yourself first. Is it worse here than in other countries? No. Being selfish is something that occurs everywhere and with every type of people. The disturbing part in Latin America is how high it goes up to the government level.

 

[ramon]

After reading this thread I have been very disapointed in the attitude in the attitude of my fellow argentine citizens here.
I am a argentine born national left in 1967 with my family and spent my formative years growing up in United Kingdom and Europe. Some of the comments here by members Nikad Gracielle and others have shown arrogance in the extreme
Just because someone lives here does not mean that he has to love it and keep his mouth shut about the problems he sees around him . Its strange but isnt Argentina famous for demonstrations which go on every day . Argentines are famous for whinging and projecting to the world this false arrogance.
I read by one member that Argentina is very very civilised and United States is very uncivilised because in his words the people eat better dress better and have better manners. I lauged my head off with that one when in reality only 20 percent of people here live well and over 30 percent live on 2 dollars american a day.
To judge argentina by recoleta and the Northern Suburbs is a huge mistake that expatriates make here . That is not argentina as manhattan is not Usa.
This same member stated that in america everyone is uncivilised sloppy dressed and lacking in table manners . Like anywhere that is true for many people and certainly argentines are no better . Where in Europe do you see Cartoneros sifting through garbage bins looking for paper to make a daily feed? Where in Europe do you see the poverty of Argentina? This Crap that Argentina is a civilised society is laughable . Have any of the members here been to a football game which are known to be the worlds most violent. Very civilised behaviour . Where in Europe do the citizens chuck trash out their windows and let their dogs shit where they want with not one bit of concern for others? Where in europe do drivers have no respect for pedestrians like Buenos Aires?
I suggest those expatatriate who arent seeing the reality here open their eyes a little and to the member called Nikad I say to you that if you are working with expatatriate with a company renting apartments do you treat them with the contempt that you do here .

 

[malbec]

Oh ramon, there is dog shit everywhere! That's no argentinian
invention. Berlin, for example is quite renowned for it (however, I
love Berlin). Drivers trying to kill pedestrians are not an exclusivity
of BA (go to any italian city to the South of Rome...or Moscow...or
Valencia...or Athen...).
Yes, BA is big, loud and noisy. There is no point trying to hide
it. But what is loud for some is fun for other (most foreigners love BA
because of its night life...some here complain because of someone's
party).


An expat should demostrate tolerance and should give the host
country a chance. Many of the foreigners who describe argentinians as
some kind of savage folk can't speak more than a few words in
Castellano and don't show the nose outside their expat-ghettos.

 

[nikad]

I am a argentine born national left in 1967 with my family and spent my formative years growing up in United Kingdom and Europe. Some of the comments here by members Nikad Gracielle and others have shown arrogance in the extreme
Just because someone lives here does not mean that he has to love it and keep his mouth shut about the problems he sees around him . Its strange but isnt Argentina famous for demonstrations which go on every day . Argentines are famous for whinging and projecting to the world this false arrogance. I suggest those expatatriate who arent seeing the reality here open their eyes a little and to the member called Nikad I say to you that if you are working with expatatriate with a company renting apartments do you treat them with the contempt that you do here .

I enjoy being around opinionated people, yet there is a difference between expressing yourself and being insulting. I work in the real estate business basically because my expat friends were sick of getting scammed, and yes I charge for my time, however while working with some people, it was very insulting to hear how they judge my fees, etc, saying it is a lot of money here... My husband is an expat, I wish we had thousands more coming here, because they all contribute in their oown way. I refuse to be nice and kind to speculators period, I don't do it on a forum and I wdon't do it while I work.