Argentina on the cusp of hyperinflation

[Julia2]

Classic misdirection techniques at work here - but it only works (just like in Australia) if the sheeple majority are ignorant and uninformed enough (and brainwashed enough) for it to work - while I can comment on the ''intelligence'' (or lack thereof) of the average voter back home (um, Kommisar Gillard is still in power there lol ) I haven't been here long enough to know if the average voter here is that dumb or not - from what I can see so far they still do quite a few things right here (for example they still have a manufacturing base here, they still produce their own food, etc. - something Australia is falling way behind in - and that will end up biting us on the bum in the future...

I think that´s all more complex, you also have to see the history of this country. A lot of people see that with the Kirchners everything had become better. But, this government came at a time when everything in this country was down, so maybe everybody would have been able to lead Argentina to better days.
I even would say this government did a lot to stop a natural and healthy development.

We as expats have a different, more objective view on what is going on here. Furthermore I don´t know in how far the average voter is able to get information from more objective media as most of them are not so familiar with reading news via internet from abroad. If you speak to people here, most see things like we do, especially the better educated people and those who also follow what is happening in the world.
There are so many things I can not understand in Argentina. People do not have to look so far, to compare. Just look at Chile where a lot of things run different.



But I would never say people are ignorant in Argentina. You know where people are ignorant? In the so called first world, where everybody is able to get objective information, where things are going worse and worse and just a few complain. Where Billions are spend to banks while social help is reduced and everything is becoming more and more expensive. (like in Europe).

 

[Johnno]

I won't disagree with you Julia - I spent most of my life in Australia and whilst we have that ''first world'' access to 'information' and 'education' that you are talking about the level of apathy and total disinterest in the governing of the country there is 90% of the problem...

IS there any sort of general unhappiness with the mismanagement of the economy and country by both sides of government ? (Liberal and Labour - our two main political parties) over the last 70 years or so - the answer is a very definite yes...

Is the average citizen/voter prepared to do something about it ? At even the most basic level of NOT continuing the pattern - of NOT voting for the two mainstream parties who effectively do the same thing - work against the interests of the common man and serve the agenda of the privileged few and a new world order that nobody BUT the privileged few actually want - sadly once again the answer is no...

The economy continues to go to the dogs - we spend so much money giving handouts to illegal immigrants (most of whom have the potential to be criminals or terrorists in the future) and to ''foreign aid'' to countries like Indonesia where it is spent on building islamic schools where they teach hatred towards the west and towards people like us - that there isn't enough money left for the people who DESERVE it and have a RIGHT to it - the Australian people themselves...

The Australian government has spent so many BILLIONS of dollars on ''foreign aid'' that when disasters like the Queensland floods occurred there was virtually NOTHING to give to those Australians who lost everything in those floods - and who SHOULD have been the FIRST PRIORITY of ''our'' government to look after...

Instead of looking after the Australian people every successive government since WW2 has spent OUR money on third world foreign aid, on giving 5 star luxury accommodation (and everything else they want) to illegal immigrants and to an ongoing policy of multicultural madness which is quite literally destroying the fabric of Australian society to such an extent that the end result will be an Australia that people of my generation would no longer recognize in 50 years from now - because it will be majority non-european, islamic and arabic speaking... The only people who will no longer have a place in this ''brave new Australia'' are those people who actually built the country in the first place - the predominantly English/Irish/Scottish immigrants and those who came from the more general European immigration just after WW2...

At the same time as doing all of this, every successive government has removed any/all protections that our home grown manufacturing sector and farmers had - in favour of cheaper Chinese/SE Asian imports - the profession near the top of the ''suicide list'' in Australia nowadays is farming - and farmers who have been ''on the land'' for sometimes 5 generations or more simply can't compete with cheap asian imports - even though these food products are vastly inferior and don't have to meet the same health standards are products do - the big supermarket chains import them and help to destroy our own farmers in the process...

Anyway - no point in getting fired up here about all of this - what has been done is done...

Time for lunch I think - empanadas, ravioli and a good local Argentinian red

 

[perry]

I won't disagree with you Julia - I spent most of my life in Australia and whilst we have that ''first world'' access to 'information' and 'education' that you are talking about the level of apathy and total disinterest in the governing of the country there is 90% of the problem...

IS there any sort of general unhappiness with the mismanagement of the economy and country by both sides of government ? (Liberal and Labour - our two main political parties) over the last 70 years or so - the answer is a very definite yes...

Is the average citizen/voter prepared to do something about it ? At even the most basic level of NOT continuing the pattern - of NOT voting for the two mainstream parties who effectively do the same thing - work against the interests of the common man and serve the agenda of the privileged few and a new world order that nobody BUT the privileged few actually want - sadly once again the answer is no...

The economy continues to go to the dogs - we spend so much money giving handouts to illegal immigrants (most of whom have the potential to be criminals or terrorists in the future) and to ''foreign aid'' to countries like Indonesia where it is spent on building islamic schools where they teach hatred towards the west and towards people like us - that there isn't enough money left for the people who DESERVE it and have a RIGHT to it - the Australian people themselves...

The Australian government has spent so many BILLIONS of dollars on ''foreign aid'' that when disasters like the Queensland floods occurred there was virtually NOTHING to give to those Australians who lost everything in those floods - and who SHOULD have been the FIRST PRIORITY of ''our'' government to look after...

Instead of looking after the Australian people every successive government since WW2 has spent OUR money on third world foreign aid, on giving 5 star luxury accommodation (and everything else they want) to illegal immigrants and to an ongoing policy of multicultural madness which is quite literally destroying the fabric of Australian society to such an extent that the end result will be an Australia that people of my generation would no longer recognize in 50 years from now - because it will be majority non-european, islamic and arabic speaking... The only people who will no longer have a place in this ''brave new Australia'' are those people who actually built the country in the first place - the predominantly English/Irish/Scottish immigrants and those who came from the more general European immigration just after WW2...

At the same time as doing all of this, every successive government has removed any/all protections that our home grown manufacturing sector and farmers had - in favour of cheaper Chinese/SE Asian imports - the profession near the top of the ''suicide list'' in Australia nowadays is farming - and farmers who have been ''on the land'' for sometimes 5 generations or more simply can't compete with cheap asian imports - even though these food products are vastly inferior and don't have to meet the same health standards are products do - the big supermarket chains import them and help to destroy our own farmers in the process...

Anyway - no point in getting fired up here about all of this - what has been done is done...

Time for lunch I think - empanadas, ravioli and a good local Argentinian red

Great post Johnno

It makes me sad to see what Australia has become with its embrace of multiculturalism and its admiration of big business to the detriment to the hard working australian man and woman .

Julie Gillard is a joke and she has a voice that reminds me of a stratching blackboard .

Australia glory days are long gone and it is all downhill from now imho.

 

[Johnno]

Sad but true Perry - my father left the UK to make a new life in Australia in 1949 (straight after he demobbed from the RAF) - it was a VERY different country then - the place had everything and the all potential in the world - before he died he often talked about how things were back home (UK) and wanting to visit - he was disgusted with what Australia had become - he never got to make that trip - and all I can say is that I am glad he didn't make it - because the shock would have killed him - the similarities between what is happening in Australia now and what is also happening in the UK - and all over Europe - its hard not to recognize a pattern here...

I have only been in Argentina a few months - but despite the problems I see here I also see a place that has so much potential and a lot of good things going for it too - and that could, if they looked at the example of where Australia and much of the western world has gone wrong, learn from our mistakes and try to avoid them...

Like I said - I've only been here a short time - but that is my two pesos worth

 

[redrum]

i have been told that gold is in a bubble by my 'wall street' friends since i started buying it at $250 an ounce. then again as it settled in the $600's, then again when it broke a $1000. now it's at $1400 after a massive 10 year bull market, and yet MOST 'joe average' people in europe and north america still don't own gold (neither ETF's like GLD or physically). They have been "educated" that there is no real upside to gold, other than the rainy day part of your portfolio. I believe until the public jumps on the bandwagon, and your cab driver is advising you to buy gold, its still a solid investment

Excellent post Canick.

I too am extremely bullish on gold and silver. i´ve been advising the readers of this forum to have at least some % of their wealth in precious metals to act as a hedge since I first joined. Since that time, a bit over 2 years, gold is up around 75% and silver 230%. There is a time for everything and right now is the time for gold. It´s so funny to see that people are slowly starting to come around now. But as you said, we ain´t seen nothin yet - not even close. Wait until the average joe on the street starts talking about gold, that´s when you know it´s time to sell. We´re still a looooong ways off from that.

As long as the fed continues to print money, gold will continue to rise in value. I believe that QE3 is definitely in the cards. At some point, there may be a formal agreement between the G20 nations for a coordinated devaluation against all the major currencies. Either way, you can be sure that the central banks and insiders will be profiting. Eventually, I´m sure we´ll see a new currency backed by a basket - of which one of those currencies will be gold.

Gold has been money for 5,000 years and it continues in that role today.

It´s been mentioned that gold could fall if there is a crash in china - that certainly is possible but I don´t believe it would keep gold down for long. The ECB has recently mentioned raising interest rates at the end of the year and the fed is expected to follow its lead. Rising rates could cause the metals to go down. This is why silver is the best play in my opinion because of its dual nature as both a monetary metal and a commodity that is consumed. Over the long run, silver will outperform gold as it has the past few years. Look for that trend to continue as the gold/silver ratio continues to close.

The dollar will most likely play the role of safety trade again as it did in 2008 but look for that to be short lived. The dollar, like all fiat currencies, will also eventually be worthless. Its happened to all the world´s reserve currencies in the past and the dollar is no different.

while nobody has a crystal ball, if we thoroughly examine the fundamentals, use history as a guide, see past the propaganda - then we can make a pretty educated guess as to how things will play out. then we simply place our bets beforehand and hope the shiny white ball lands on our number.

 

[Johnno]

Perry - this probably won't be a surprise to you - but as a bit of a ''ps'' here is a perfect example of ''multiculturalism'' and immigration out of control in Australia - its results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ-Mhnm7dC4

The REALLY scary part is that this is just one example of many such plots and schemes they have made against us - IF this one had gone undetected THOUSANDS would have died - if our security/intelligence people let one get past them - which is eventually bound to happen - well you can see where things are heading...

The BEST part - we paid this piece of filth unemployment benefits for about 19 years - while he and his muslim friends were plotting to kill thousands of us at a major sporting venue...

 

[Hache]

But I would never say people are ignorant in Argentina. You know where people are ignorant? In the so called first world, where everybody is able to get objective information, where things are going worse and worse and just a few complain.

Thanks for exposing my ignorance. You made me go back to my last post and read it carefully, something I should have done before clicking on the submit button.

I said:

At least I learned that money is a volatile thing with no value but a circumstantial one

So I learned -realized, actually- that money may be affected by circumstances. According to the dictionary, a circumstance is a modifying factor. Factor is defined as anything that contributes causally to a result. So if I'm right, any existing thing could be affected by anything that happens.

I can proudly say that I was only 12 when I learned that money exists!!!

and that if I wanted to save it, it should come from a country where people in charge of printing it knew what they were doing.

This could be theoretically right, but in the field... do I choose a currency - I always choose the dollar- based on what I know or what I think I know about it?

Do I know what I'm doing?

Again according to the dictionary, ignorant means unaware or uninformed. So can people be ignorant? Yes, depending on the circumstances, they could be ignorant about something. Can people in Argentina be ignorant? Yes, depending on the circumstances. People in the "First World"? Yes, depending on the circumstances. BTW, could someone here, under the current circumstances, define First World? I'll take the opportunity to be helped out of my ignorance before posting from it. At least this time.

And with all due respect, Julia, we are all able to get objective information and let me add interpret it objectively, it's up to each one of us to do it or not. Being in the First World may be a plus, but since I ignore the concrete meaning of the term, at least this time I won't presume it is.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

BTW, could someone here, under the current circumstances, define First World?

The common, modern definition is still from the Cold War divide:

First World: USA and her allies
Second World: Russia and her allies
Third World: developing countries
(Fourth World: indigenous peoples)

Personally I prefer the more ancient version I learned from before the cold war where the First World is that known in the time of the Roman Empire; the Second World is the "discovered" world and the Third World is, once again, the developing world.

Here's something to think about. Right now, the USA has a weak economy, decaying industrial centres, millions out of work, thousands of homeless people living rough on the streets and in parks and - from the point of view of the poor and uninsured - a broken healthcare system. But nobody in their right mind would declare that the USA should be demoted to Third World status. A hundred years ago, Argentina was the seventh richest country on the planet - surely a First Worlder? So why are people so ready to classify Argentina as Third World rather than a First World country fallen on hard times like its neighbour in the north?

 

[Julia2]

Thanks for exposing my ignorance. You made me go back to my last post and read it carefully, something I should have done before clicking on the submit button.

I said:



So I learned -realized, actually- that money may be affected by circumstances. According to the dictionary, a circumstance is a modifying factor. Factor is defined as anything that contributes causally to a result. So if I'm right, any existing thing could be affected by anything that happens.

I can proudly say that I was only 12 when I learned that money exists!!!



This could be theoretically right, but in the field... do I choose a currency - I always choose the dollar- based on what I know or what I think I know about it?

Do I know what I'm doing?

Again according to the dictionary, ignorant means unaware or uninformed. So can people be ignorant? Yes, depending on the circumstances, they could be ignorant about something. Can people in Argentina be ignorant? Yes, depending on the circumstances. People in the "First World"? Yes, depending on the circumstances. BTW, could someone here, under the current circumstances, define First World? I'll take the opportunity to be helped out of my ignorance before posting from it. At least this time.

And with all due respect, Julia, we are all able to get objective information and let me add interpret it objectively, it's up to each one of us to do it or not. Being in the First World may be a plus, but since I ignore the concrete meaning of the term, at least this time I won't presume it is.

Sorry, if "ignorant" means uninformed you are right!
That was my mistake. In german it means that somebody knows all but does not care.
About the information: That was a question of me. I ask myself if the average voter reads other news than the propaganda made by the government. Just whatch the TV here and you know what I mean. Most people I talk to say that this government is one of the biggest problems in Argentina, but these people are not the average, I think.

 

[Hache]

The common, modern definition is still from the Cold War divide:

First World: USA and her allies
Second World: Russia and her allies
Third World: developing countries
(Fourth World: indigenous peoples)

The Cold War definition I know is this:

1 - The bloc of democratic-industrial countries within the American influence sphere, the "First World".
2 - The Eastern bloc of the communist-socialist states, the "Second World".
3 - The remaining three-quarters of the world's population, states not aligned with either bloc were regarded as the "Third World."

Quoted from Nations Online.

Here's something to think about. Right now, the USA has a weak economy, decaying industrial centres, millions out of work, thousands of homeless people living rough on the streets and in parks and - from the point of view of the poor and uninsured - a broken healthcare system. But nobody in their right mind would declare that the USA should be demoted to Third World status. A hundred years ago, Argentina was the seventh richest country on the planet - surely a First Worlder? So why are people so ready to classify Argentina as Third World rather than a First World country fallen on hard times like its neighbour in the north?

That's why I find First World and Third World to be senseless terms. IMO, all countries are developing countries. Development is a dynamic thing. Some countries are more developed than others, and the picture changes all the time.