Argentina ready to launch nationwide health pass

[FrankPintor]

Bullrich "repented" by suggesting on Viale's show that if the political parties could go door to door to those that did not vote in the PASO, then the government could certainly do the same for those who've refrained from the vaccine.

Actually, I understand this is happening, I don't have a link or reference to point you to, but from talking to a social worker here it seems there are door-to-door vaccinations going on, at least in the "villas".

 

[jblaze5779]

Another of the government's good ideas that they copied from Europe and at the end of the day have no ability, hope or will to actually enforce.

These a good concepts but why even have them if the enforcement part never exists. Much like traffic regulations.

 

[steveinbsas]

Actually, I understand this is happening, I don't have a link or reference to point you to, but from talking to a social worker here it seems there are door-to-door vaccinations going on, at least in the "villas".

I saw this YouTube video on August 20, 2021

El Gobierno bonaerense comenzó la vacunación "casa por casa" contra la Covid-19 en siete distritos

 

[Shane]

Ah, but many more do. Check https://www.lanacion.com.ar/sociedad/la-vacunacion-en-la-argentina-en-tiempo-real-nid02022021/#/ to see > 67% of the total population vaccinated with 2 doses here in Argentina, 1.5 doses applied per person, right up there with say France, Portugal, and Spain, and ahead of Germany and the Netherlands. In any case, it's all about the science, not your opinion.

Fortunately the anti-vax movement never really got traction here in Argentina, despite the efforts of people like Bullrich and Millei (who cynically and coquettishly flirted with the anti-vaxxers but still got vaccinated)

It's about freedom of choice. The "science" is highly debated and constantly changing. Data is showing people that had Covid such as myself have as high if not higher efficacy than the vax. There are also many ingredients not disclosed, why? Why will they not disclose all of the study data on safety? It's a new experimental technology, and there have been nearly 3 million adverse reactions reported by the WHO just this year. That's 10x more adverse reactions to a vaccine in a year compared to the next highest which is the influenza vaccine with 272,000 reported ADR's over a 33 year period.

 

[Alby]

There are also many ingredients not disclosed, why? Why will they not disclose all of the study data on safety?

Why do you think this is? What is your explanation for the phenomenon you observe?

 

[Shane]

Why do you think this is? What is your explanation for the phenomenon you observe?

My opinion doesn't matter as to why. It's not a phenomenon, they are refusing to disclose this information. If there was nothing to hide I'm sure they would not be hiding it. The safety data and ingredients used in the vax not being fully disclosed should highly concern anyone from making an informed choice.

 

[Alby]

Why would you not disclose your opinion? If there was nothing to hide I'm sure you would not be hiding it.

(I'm trying to evaluate whether it is safe to take the third dosis and whether to march on the street against draconian compulsory vaccination laws, both of which are actions you seem to advocate. So why not tell the whole story, as you see it.)

 

[FrankPintor]

What information isn't disclosed? The EMA publishes product information here: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-...ovid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines

For example, the product information document for the BioNTech / Pfizer vaccine (Comirnaty) starts off like this:
--
1. NAME OF THE MEDICINAL PRODUCT

Comirnaty 30 micrograms/dose concentrate for dispersion for injection
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified)

2. QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE COMPOSITION

This is a multidose vial and must be diluted before use.

One vial (0.45 mL) contains 6 doses of 0.3 mL after dilution, see sections 4.2 and 6.6.

One dose (0.3 mL) contains 30 micrograms of tozinameran, a COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (embedded in lipid nanoparticles).

Tozinameran is a single-stranded, 5’-capped messenger RNA (mRNA) produced using a cell-free in vitro transcription from the corresponding DNA templates, encoding the viral spike (S) protein of SARS-CoV-2.

For the full list of excipients, see section 6.1.
--
I didn't go on to section 6.1, because it almost certainly has lots of information that I don't understand, but maybe you should? The information is certainly out there, it's a bit silly to deny that. I don't see that anyone is hiding anything.

About your other points, a natural COVID infection hasn't been considered sufficient protection against reinfection for a long time now, vaccination was found to cause production of many more antibodies than infection. What was initially a strong recommendation is now becoming a mandate.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "experimental technology"? There are at least 3 distinct technologies used, and one of them is entirely conventional, based on using the inactivated virus: Soberana (used in Cuba), Sinopharm (used in Argentina), and Sinovac (used in Chile and Uruguay). They seem to be less effective than the newer technologies, but the you could choose to get either of the last two quite easily.

And yeah, the science (you can drop the air-commas) is debated, science is always debated, but what's really undebatable is that it was better to get the vaccines than to let COVID rip. Doesn't matter if some of the technologies are very new or not, they were trialed, found to work and be safe, and went to mass deployment (and were stopped / paused if serious adverse reactions were observed). The process was fast, but it had to be.

Just as a matter of interest, did you check the absolute numbers of COVID and flu vaccinations? Only a small part of the population is vaccinated against flu each year, COVID vaccination is a really massive undertaking. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of COVID vaccinations is already far more than the flu vaccinations.

 

[Shane]

I don't think my personal reasons should matter to others. Everyone should be able to do their research and come to their own conclusions. The powers that be are now saying that the vax is not really effective without a booster every 6 months. If you want to put these unknown substances in your body every 6 months, it's up to you. I'm clearly in an informed minority that does not want to be forced into an uninformed decision. I don't want to be ostracized or attacked. I'm sad about the situation and have a lot of concerns.

 

[Shane]

What information isn't disclosed? The EMA publishes product information here: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-...ovid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines

For example, the product information document for the BioNTech / Pfizer vaccine (Comirnaty) starts off like this:
--
1. NAME OF THE MEDICINAL PRODUCT

Comirnaty 30 micrograms/dose concentrate for dispersion for injection
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified)

2. QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE COMPOSITION

This is a multidose vial and must be diluted before use.

One vial (0.45 mL) contains 6 doses of 0.3 mL after dilution, see sections 4.2 and 6.6.

One dose (0.3 mL) contains 30 micrograms of tozinameran, a COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (embedded in lipid nanoparticles).

Tozinameran is a single-stranded, 5’-capped messenger RNA (mRNA) produced using a cell-free in vitro transcription from the corresponding DNA templates, encoding the viral spike (S) protein of SARS-CoV-2.

For the full list of excipients, see section 6.1.
--
I didn't go on to section 6.1, because it almost certainly has lots of information that I don't understand, but maybe you should? The information is certainly out there, it's a bit silly to deny that. I don't see that anyone is hiding anything.

About your other points, a natural COVID infection hasn't been considered sufficient protection against reinfection for a long time now, vaccination was found to cause production of many more antibodies than infection. What was initially a strong recommendation is now becoming a mandate.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "experimental technology"? There are at least 3 distinct technologies used, and one of them is entirely conventional, based on using the inactivated virus: Soberana (used in Cuba), Sinopharm (used in Argentina), and Sinovac (used in Chile and Uruguay). They seem to be less effective than the newer technologies, but the you could choose to get either of the last two quite easily.

And yeah, the science (you can drop the air-commas) is debated, science is always debated, but what's really undebatable is that it was better to get the vaccines than to let COVID rip. Doesn't matter if some of the technologies are very new or not, they were trialed, found to work and be safe, and went to mass deployment (and were stopped / paused if serious adverse reactions were observed). The process was fast, but it had to be.

Just as a matter of interest, did you check the absolute numbers of COVID and flu vaccinations? Only a small part of the population is vaccinated against flu each year, COVID vaccination is a really massive undertaking. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of COVID vaccinations is already far more than the flu vaccinations.

I'm so happy you feel well informed about your decisons.