Argentina Safety Versus Chile, Uruguay, Costa Rica

Last year it was 25 degrees C, sunny day. Really beautiful. I am walking around with my porteño husband and say to him "what a beautiful day!" and he replied "yes, but the sun will burn your skin anyway."
Argentines in general and porteños in general like to believe that there country is the worse place in the world in terms of crime, economy, corruption, etc and they like to complain a lot. Talking to some people here you would think that we are living in Syria or Nazi Germany.
I also agree that robbery is a big problem, probably much more so than murder. I never fear that anyone will kill me but am concerned about theft.
 
I would be about as convinced of the accuracy of the crime statistics here as I am of inflation statistics.
 
uhmmmm why then insecurity is a major campaign issue.... :confused:
 
In reply to the comment about school shootings, the first, and only one I can recall, was in 2004, when a young boy nicknamed "Junior" opened fire inside the classroom, killing two girls, one boy, and wounding seven.

He stole his father's gun.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masacre_escolar_de_Carmen_de_Patagones

Murder rate is low in argentina. Crimes are related to theft in most of cases. It is still extremely rare, if any, (knock on wood) to hear about crimes related to race, religion, etc.

There are more chances that you get mugged, or beaten up for wearing the wrong football colours in the wrong neighbourhood than being shot for coming from x or y town/country.
 
Since when have we started giving any credit to locally produced (and provided) statistics?
 
Intentional homicide is not the only crime that makes people feel unsafe. Many homicides that you read about in the newspapers in Argentina, fore example, are the result of a robbery or attempted robbery. That, to me, is even scarier than an intentional homicide. The fact that I could be in a cafe or a store and get shot as a "side effect" of that place being robbed at random is much more disturbing and unsettling than thinking about someone planning my murder for a specific motive.

Also, the fact that criminals operate with almost complete impunity due to the corruption and absolute uselessness of the police and judicial system doesn't help. I have a good friend whose entire house was robbed clean, all electronics, all money, all her husband's band equipment, everything! And the cops were unwilling to do anything. Not only that, but they told her (she is Argentine and not from a very wealthy background) that they were unable to investigate since she and her husband had entered the house after the robbery occurred and somehow walking into the house contaminated the crime scene so they could not investigate.

Maybe in Argentina some crazy person holding a grudge isn't planning your murder, but a group of professional criminals can steal your entire life and the police can refuse to do anything about it. And you can be killed in a robbery, be raped, or be the victim of any other number of violent crimes and the police will not do very much about it. That to me is absolutely frightening and a serious problem.

The murder you described (during a robbery) would be included in the stats.

My take
1) Theft (and to a lesser but appreciable extent muggings) are a real problem
2) They have clearly risen relative to the past, and people have noticed
3) Mistrust of law enforcement, especially outside BA proper
4) Argentine "pessimism" does play a factor, and not helped by other negatives (ie. economic shenanigans by the gov't)

All contributes to a feeling of great insecurity, underpinned by real & legitimate concerns about certain aspects of security.
 
Argentina is increasing its violence.
There are lots of social studies that stands that violence origin radicates in inequality, that inequality means, in a wide meaning, segregation, the negation of the other. So the others reaction to this is by violence.

Argentina is a disbanding society, where more rules are breaken every day, where corruption wins an every day battle (BESIDES THE GOVERNMENT - I mean corruption from the verdulero, the sanity inspector or the big succesfully entrepreneur), it is a complete situation of anomie. Thats why we all complain that much, because there still is very strong and clear in the collective imagination the Argentina power of the XXth century, It seems some people, especialy older people but that instil to their sons this speech of Argentina power, just cant accept that we re more close to Bolivia than to Europe.

Argentina is a totally new society preparred to fight against this social problems, they are just new, we dont have a tradition of poverty, of street violence in the numbers we have today. There were always existed the villas but they were statistically marginal, we never have had +50% of poverty as we did in 2002. So this is a completely another society, a new society, the post 2001. Our ministeries, our state institutions, some proffesors, people I knew who worked for the state, nobody had an idea of how to manage this. It collapsed. And I m not sure talking about a big recovery. It sounds to me that when the recession cycle begins, lots, millions of people will go again into poverty.

So thats why we complain, some of us grew without cartoneros, without informal job in the street, without inseguridad, with a very safe city where you could walk perfectly safe at 3 AM, or take a colectivo, or without radio taxis!!! thats new!! or without fear for the different, without that barrier that exists today, without suspicion of anybody, without the lack of authority you can see today (referring, for example, to the school teachers, they were much more respected, especially in poor neighborhoods). I grew up in the 80s/90s and it was another thing, another city, another society, another people. Much more draw together, with not much differences with the other, where public places were for everybody, and the private spaces practically didnt exist.

So back on topic, Argentina is relatively safe, although inseguridad is overreacted, inflated, created and recreated by the media, there is a base of reality where this right wing propaganda stands. But still we can walk safe in a lot of places at night without fear, believe in people, take the colectivo at 5 AM, etc,
 
I would be about as convinced of the accuracy of the crime statistics here as I am of inflation statistics.
One word, "conspiracy" lol, the crime numbers are accurate everywhere, the places where is more difficult to measure and even so they tend to be accurate in a degree are places in war. Inflation is easy to fake as the organism that measure it is measuring prices but the mechanism they use to do it is really fake, but murders lol, is simple a person is found dead by knife, gun, or any weapon or possible cause of death where you have 99% of the normal cases and you count 1, (you don-t count 0,5 death, so there is no big complexity in this statistic and is extremely difficult to fake), in any case the government are not the ones that make this index, they are made by the ONU and is considered a very accurate date. Is stupid to discuss about a number that is almost impossible to fake even in African country’s they tend to be accurate to a degree
 
Since when have we started giving any credit to locally produced (and provided) statistics?
Is not locally produced stadistic, there is no local statistic of crime, they are all done by the ONU, and they only do statistic of murders crime because is the only one that they can guarantee the accuracy as is explained in the other post, that why there is no statistic made by the ONU regarding thief as more thief crimes have a country more prone is the people to not report them, the same principle doesn’t apply on murders
 
The murder you described (during a robbery) would be included in the stats.

My take
1) Theft (and to a lesser but appreciable extent muggings) are a real problem
2) They have clearly risen relative to the past, and people have noticed
3) Mistrust of law enforcement, especially outside BA proper
4) Argentine "pessimism" does play a factor, and not helped by other negatives (ie. economic shenanigans by the gov't)

All contributes to a feeling of great insecurity, underpinned by real & legitimate concerns about certain aspects of security.
I agree with almost all you say here, thieft is not so related to this stadistic but it normally does have a degree of correlation with it, i will add another factor that you have forgoten: there is a war between media and government in where the main media use any amunition they have to damage the government (same on the other side, but with this going on is dificult to know what is true and what is not, the ones that read oficial media believe they are in the paradaise, the ones that read clarin believe that as soon as you put a foot out of your house you will die lol, so people don't know what to believe and their feeling toward insecurity in every aspect of their life "not only crime" is rising). The solution is to read one side and the other and put a middle point as the reality :p
 
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