Argentines are warm; Americans are cold

[rmartinbuenosaires]

WynnsWoods-While personally agreeing with most of your comments, you must realize that you are trying to use logic while discussing the topic with TatanBS. Logic does not come into play here as I have attempted to use it with her on more than one occasion, as have others, and what you are dealing with is an extreme case of anti-American behavior so ANYTHING you say, regardless of validity, will be met with criticism from her. Best to just ignore her input as I often have done.

 

[Matty]

rmartin,TatanBsAs (or as you wrote it TatanBS) is SEBASTIAN; he said from previous post. And you are right, let me say that.
And yes, WynnsWoods, BIENVENIDO a Argentina! for after awhile the badgering and incessant "illogical" reasoning and line of thought leaves you exasperated. But thank you for trying, as you can see I am just an outsider looking into this post, and I love to read the repartee.

 

[perry]

Having beeing to America on more than 4 occasions I have found them to be welcoming and warm much to my suprise. I have met in my life wonderful American people who are very open and generous in spirit.
Unfortunately we are taught from our media to demonise societies when people are mere pawns of their governments.
Argentine people are very helpful and especially you will note this when you ask for directions on the streets here. I have never encountered such good voluntud in asking for directions from strangers than I have here in Buenos Aires.
Saying that Argentinians will invite you less to their homes than Americans. Australians or Greeks . I do not why that is maybe our argentine contributors can best answer this question.

 

[citygirl]

I think comparing how important family is btwn Argentines & Americans is very difficult. When I talk with my Argentine friends about how I moved out of my parents house at 17 (to go to university) and don't see them all that often (prob 4x a year), they can't even begin to comprehend that. This compared to how many of them live at home until they get married, still have dinner with their family every Sunday etc - the general experiences are so different it's trying to compare apples & oranges. I love my family just as much as the average Argentine loves his/her family, its just our cultural context is different. FWIW - when I lived in NY, I had more than a few "friends of friends" stay with me in my apt. They were usually pretty shocked than an American would be so open - they had an idea of Americans as cold & unfriendly. But I would hope that they came back from their travels with a more open mind I think in NYC, people weren't unfriendly but everyone was just so busy that people might perceive it as unfriendliness. I'm still trying to get used to the slower pace here and the fact that people will meet for lunch during the work day with friends or acquaintances - something very foreign to me...

 

[Mitscherman]

Regarding subject of family and friendship, my personal experience indicates that Europeans and Argentines are more family oriented and many maintain the same friends for life.

Most Argentines and Europeans live in the same city or at least the same province as their family and friends and therefore the connection is more grounded. Even spouses were once school mates or friends who often hang out together.
Americans, by volume, maintain relationships via emails and chat sessions. Even people working for the same company in the same building rarely talk to each other face to face. Online services such Instant Messengers, MySpace, and Facebook have become popular in part to fill the vacuum created by long distance relationships.Would be interested to find statistics which show how many Americans (as I am American) live in the same city they grew up in, the same city where their family lives, and/or even the same state. Of those who do, I would like a break down of their ethnic and socio-economic background. I suspect many would be of Latino or European origin, who moved to the USA within the past two generations to create a new and better life for their family.My mother recently asked me why I don't move back home after retiring from the military service. My reply was to question to ask where she thought I should call home. (During my life I have at one time or another called home to Florida, Arkansas, New Jersey, Arizona, California, Virginia, Rhode Island, Spain, Italy, Greece, and now Argentina) Her reply... "anywhere in the USA". My point is that in general, we leave home when we are 17 or 18 years old in order to blaze a new life for ourselves. Rare is the person I have met who grew up in the same town they now live, hang out with same friends they had in high school, or married a hometown girl who's families knew each other. Here and in Europe, it is (or at least was) common for a father to build a house for their children, paid in full. We on the other hand, are up to our necks in debt and work our butts off to pay the mortgage (or more likely rent) credit cards, etc... In fact, our system of judging/classifying people in the USA is according to their credit history. The bigger your credit card debt, the better social standing you have. Visa Gold Card, American Express Platinum, etc... Without a credit card you can't rent a car or even an apartment these days.
So, getting back to the point... In my opinion, most North Americans are too busy working (for the reasons I mentioned above) to truly enjoy the life they are living let alone make time for family and friends without advanced planning.Of course there are exceptions.... But how many Rothchilds, Rockerfellers, and Kennedies are truly happy even with all their fame and material wealth. Just look at the Paris Hilton as but one example in a long line of many. Cheers - Brian

 

[Matty]

WW, as much as there are different cultures that compose the Argentinian landscape, so does the American landscape. What about the Chinese, Japanese, Filipinos and Mexicans who are Americans (4th generation and up) that do take care of their parents. Those who work 2 jobs and still go home and take care of 2 parents? I hope you count them when in when you say Americans. For America has really changed and the demographics I am sure will now show that a big portion of the populace in the USA is slowly creeping up to more of the minorities than the standard majority.
The "other" nationalities though now American still adhere to their old ancestors practice and value of personally taking care of their elderly. It is not the norm in the US, we know, but our roots tell us, it is an honor to serve those who had raised you.

 

[Granadaiscool]

yes, argentines are warm. that is why you will find the same apartment listed on craigslist for 79000 listed on clarin for 60000. check it out. michaelClick Text Here

Smart business people

 

[Mitscherman]

yes, argentines are warm. that is why you will find the same apartment listed on craigslist for 79000 listed on clarin for 60000. check it out. michaelClick Text Here
Smart business people

Supply and demand. If the price was too high for foreigners, they would go down. But time and time again, what I hear from Europeans and North Americans is that the prices here are cheap. No wonder you pay more!

 

[chris]

The notion that Americans do not care about or take care of their parents is nonsense. I can think of many cases of friends who are doing a lot for their parents. The wife of one of my best friends has coordinated an effort with her siblings to take care of her aged mother. Each sibling is responsible for one or two days of care a week. My friends would like to relocate to a more rural area in another state but will not do so as long as they have parental care responsibilities. Another friend lives with his mother who has Altzheimer's. He pays for an aide to come in when he is not home. When he is there, at night and on weekends, he does all the work. A third friend deferred marriage until recently (he's in his 40's) because his mother needed constant care. I could go down a list of quite a few others I know who are doing a lot for their parents. Yes, some choose the nursing home route. In some cases, this is the best solution. Some elderly people require constant care that only someone very rich could provide. Not all nursing homes are depressing and the extent to which children visit depends on the children themselves. There are also retirement homes, many of which in the US are absolutely luxurious - like country clubs. My father has chosen to live in one of these in Naples, Florida and I can assure you that he wouldn't even dream of living with either of his children. He values his independence and he wants a guarantee of the best possible health care, in a dignified setting, in his declining years (quality perpetual care is guaranteed by most retirement homes). I am certain that if Argentina had a decent pension system and a quality national health scheme far more elderly people would live independently. As it is only the wealthy can expect to receive anything approaching the quality care available to the elderly in the US. The majority have to make do on their own or with help from children. In defence of all the American friends I have who have been sacrificing to help their parents I really must disagree with some of the comments I have been reading here.

 

[Mitscherman]

WW, I enjoy reading your editorials regarding the variety of topics/forums in this group as they appear well thought out and researched. Thanks for sharing. My opinion is that many of the expats who left the United States to settle in European or Latin American countries have done so for the exact same reasons we are discussing. Most are fed up with our national norms which include family values, (which by the way seems to be a major platform for every politician running for office), health care system, and worker bee/army ant mentality. Think about this... in general everything that has been said to "criticize" and/or "support" the differences in our cultural norms really describes a society with a mentality for production and perhaps even an obsessive desire for efficiency similar to that found in slave labor. (Think Mayans and Egyptians)
Instead of building pyramids, we build credit; and instead of paying our check to the company store, we pay it to Master Card, Visa, and the bank who holds the deed to "our" (yeah, right) house and title for "our" car(s). Bitter? In some ways yes. But I think a better word would be disappointed. Both parents must work and in turn 'raise' latch-key children, usually raised by somebody else, while accumulating debt up to our ears. Is this the American Dream? Or is it the foreshadowing of the new world order and the objective of globalization?I do miss the clean, manicured streets as well as the active law enforcement found in the USA, police who actually pull cars over because they exceed emission standards or don't meet safety requirements, or for tailgating, or speeding, or throwing trash on the street. In most cities and towns, we can actually see our tax dollars (most of them anyway) at work building a better community to live in. Of course there is corruption, but there is also production. Police Officers are generally respected and laws are respected/followed by the majority of people.
Here, taxes go into the politicians pockets and rarely do you see the tax dollars at work in the community unless it is an election year (like now). Hence, many people work under the table and/or don't pay taxes and therefor, there is no "left over" money to put back into the community after the corruption. Laws are not adhered to by the majority of people and police do not actively enforce the law.
One more thought before I go (little off topic)... Let's compare and contrast the education system here.
In the USA children go to school for between 6 and 8 hours a day. There are "school buses" available for children in the public school system, and meals are served in the school cafeteria. Here, in the province of Buenos Aires, children go to school for approximately 4 hours a day and simply don't show up at the state schools because either the heaters don't work or because it is raining. There are no school buses for children in the state school nor are there cafeterias to serve nutritional meals. Most schools are run down and badly in need of repair. But that is in the province of Buenos Aires (Partido de Escobar, to be exact). I now live in the partido de Tigre and have noticed a slight improvement. I have also seen beautiful schools in the northern province of Misiones.
While Argentines may be more family oriented than Americans, they are not necessarily community oriented. Americans usually think about others first and are, in my opinion, more community oriented. For example, we use turn signals to let people know our intention. We pull over to the side of the road so people can pass when we are stopped. We drive in our own lane (not straddling) so not to be a hazard for other drivers. Etc.. etc...
So, what's my point? While Argentina may be more family oriented then the USA, it's societal norms also has it's drawbacks. The theme of this forum is Argentines are warm; Americans are cold, but it could just as easily read Argentines are divided, corrupt, and under productive while Americans are united, law abiding, and over productive. Balance is key!