B.A. Supermarkets More Expensive Than London, Madrid or NY...!!!

[ElQueso]

I live reasonably good here, but it's expensive. Most expats I know who live here live at about my level, a few well above and a few below.

The prices were compared at the official rate, and I am certain that most everything (except certain cuts of beef, like lomo compared to filet) in my "canasta" is as expensive, or more so in not a few cases, than the same stuff costs in Houston compared at the official rate.

At the beginning of the year I was determined to leave Argentina due to the fact that the peso was keeping artificially low compared to the dollar and not keeping up with inflation at all. Things were getting way too expensive for me.

The blue rate changed all that. Things are still expensive here, but more than 25% less at that rate, putting costs back almost a couple of years ago in relation. Still not as good as when I first came here, but enough to put that moving decision off for awhile.

But I feel I'm fairly fortunate, even though not rich and not without my own limitations. I really feel for the people who live here (local or expat) who have to earn their money in pesos and live as well, since there is not blue rate relief. I watch my brothers-in-law and other family members struggle to make a living and keep up with inflation while literally working their asses off.

It's one reason I don't like to encourage people who want to come down here right now and try to live off of local work as an "adventure."

 

[Sockhopper]

Certainly, grocery store prices in Nice are priced one-quarter higher than BA's. And Nice's groceries are a wee bit cheaper than Canada's. Nice, being a smaller city, is noticeably cheaper than Paris for many other things too. We're keeping track of the cost of everything we buy here in order to develop a realstic budget. Over the past year, I've come to distrust reports that look for ways to spin how expensive BA has become for ordinary basics such as groceries in contrast to this or that other country or city.

Anywhere in the world, one can find a jar of jam, say, that's overpriced or luxury or of a grade that most people in that country don't buy. And each country produces some kind of food that is cheaper right there than elsewhere. Using these natural phenomena to misinform and rile people for a political or financial objective is dishonest. Either that or the people compiling those reports are incompetent shoppers or simply have no idea about what real people buy for their families to survive.

aydon'tt' sir,. oprsmake people feel more outraged in BA at a time is dishonest and upsetting. wehn le isngt twere The one can use it to claim that people in another country are being ripped off. This is not truthful. Either that, or the person who does this is an incompetent shopper. tn o es nerh

gtn other iam you can use that to 'prove' how expensive another place is by contrast. I dont trust bea. 'con r oThen you because e unused by most people and then use this to show how place "X" must be overpriced. That's just dishones or 'te and then say "Look, we otehr compare BA's \that ordinay most people dont use becausdrtah tttea. It' dishr
Of course, one can find anywhere a jar of something that's intentionally priced very high or very low to 'prove' the point one making. That's dishonest because ordinary people ple e twot high here and then call that your base figure for en emexamples of foods tolea sampe of food that's luxurry lr jar of jam ohere that's ridiculously high rn ehre

 

[Rich One]

At the beginning of the year I was determined to leave Argentina due to the fact that the peso was keeping artificially low compared to the dollar and not keeping up with inflation at all. Things were getting way too expensive for me.

The blue rate changed all that. Things are still expensive here, but more than 25% less at that rate, putting costs back almost a couple of years ago in relation. Still not as good as when I first came here, but enough to put that moving decision off for awhile.

El Queso... you made a good move to stay and benefit from the Blue rate, by February 2013 you will feel much better yet...!!

 

[mariano-BCN]

Rich one: why do you mention Feb 2013, what happens then? a huge devaluation then? Hope so! Argentina is bloody expensive, even with euros!

 

[Sockhopper]

[font='Arial'']Please excuse my garbled draft a few posts back. I submitted that mess accidentally and thought it was erased before this website then disappeared from my screen. Here is what I meant to say. [/font]
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[font='Arial'']I find articles stating groceries to be cheaper in other major cities around the world to be very misleading. "La Nacion" has published these a few times since Argentine financial controls began. [/font]
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[font='Arial'']What its most recent one says doesn't reflect my experience when food-shopping in different countries and cities. My husband and I moved to Nice, France in September. here We go over and hang onto every grocery bill because we're making a new household budget. Groceries, item after item, have so far been costing us about 25% more than in BA, a small bit less than in Canada, noticeably less than in Paris and way less than than what we were paying in London 7 years ago. [/font]
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[font='Arial'']One needs to know more than just bare prices to understand the impact of pricing differences upon peoplle in different countries. At a time when Argentines are being isolated due to severe travel restrictions and fewer foreigners coming to BA and exchanging new live information with them, surely "La Nacion" bears an increased social responsibility to better inform the Argentine public by explaining to it the impact of those foreign prices that it uses upon the very people who actually live IN those OTHER countries and who pay thoe 'better' prices. Providing foreign prices without showing how people abroad are coping or not promotes a distorted idea that people who live outside Argentina must have far cushier lives despite their economies being in recession or stagnant. "La Nacion" should be providing a truer picture of life abroad so that its carefully selected and meagre batches of price contrasts can impart some useful meaning. Doing this might inspire solutions to Argentines' difficulties. Instead, this paper’s narrow approach seems directed only at riling and shocking Argentines and inviting a sense of futility. [/font]
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[font='Arial'']Food is a lot cheaper in Nice than in London where food has always been notoriously expensive. So, I can’t believe that London’s groceries are now cheaper than BA’s knowing as I do that food in Nice (much cheaper than London's) costs 25% more than food costs in BA. Even if a couple of foodstuffs actually are cheaper in London now than in BA, informative journalism would have begged adding the fact that London’s residential rents have just skyrocketed yet again and health services are undergoing further cuts. Similarly, if food in Madrid is OVERALL cheaper than BA's now, what exactly does this do or mean to the 25% of unemployed Spaniards aged 16-25 who can’t pay any rent for a place in which to cook a meal? [/font]

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Comparison cost of living surveys between different economies are notorious difficult to organise and can be picked to pieces very easily and any "objective" survey has to rely more or less on a leap of faith i.e trust from the users. Naturally surveys have to be based on relatively small samples at a limited number of outlets etc so that is one range of potential sources of error but the most problematic difficulties for the compiler relates to the choice of exchange rates used in comparisons and the fluctuations in rates as well as the actual rate chosen can off-set or even disguise underlying trends in inflation in real terms.

The Guardian published a Cost of Living Survey for Cities around the world using information from Mercer the HR people and which seeks to identify an index for Ex-Pats living in large cities around the world based on the US dollar. Mercer's survey has been mentioned before on this board but I did search and I cant find any recent posts or reference to the latest 2012 survey. This was published in June 2012 using March 2012 survey data so will be out of date already. OK so this includes property prices which have their own problems but Ive picked out some references to key findings as far as the current discussion can be summarised. Actual figures for New York and London as well as other major cities at the top or bottom of the tables are downloadable but not for either Madrid or Buenos Aires the latter which is only referred to in the summaries. If you want the same amount of detail for all cities then send payment to Mercer!

London 25 New York 33 Buenos Aires 121

The Americas
São Paulo (12) and Rio de Janeiro (13) remain the most expensive cities for expatriates across both North and South America, and are closely trailed by Caracas (29), which jumped 22 places since last year. In South America, Brasilia (45) is now the fourth most expensive city, down 12 places. Dropping from 53rd position, Havana (99) experienced the largest drop in the region as the US dollar strengthened considerably against the Cuban peso. At 121, up from 159, Buenos Aires made the region’s biggest jump up the list following strong inflation, which considerably increased the cost of goods, and an increase in accommodation cost. Ms Constantin-Métral commented: “Inflation pressures continued to push some South American cities up the ranking, whereas for some of the region’s cities, weakening of the local currencies caused them to rank lower.”

Ranking 33 (down from 32 in 2011), New York City remains the most costly city in the United States. Los Angeles (68) and San Francisco (90) are slowly catching up, however, having jumped a respective nine and 16 places since last year. Amongst other major US cities, Washington (107) is up one place, Miami (110) is up five places and Chicago, also at 110, is down two places. Portland, Oregon (178), and Winston-Salem, North Carolina (195), remain the least expensive surveyed cities for expatriates in the United States. Ms Constantin-Métral said: “Although price increases have remained moderate overall, most US cities have gone up in the ranking, mainly as a result of the strong US dollar.”
Europe
At number four in the global ranking, Moscow remains the most expensive city in Europe for expatriates. Geneva follows in fifth position and Zurich in sixth (up one place from last year). The next European city in the ranking, Bern (14), is up two places from last year, following the strengthening of the Swiss franc against the US dollar.

With a few exceptions, the remaining European cities have all dropped in the rankings, mainly due to a considerable weakening of local currencies, including the euro, against the US dollar. Oslo (18) is down three places from 2011, Copenhagen (21) is down four places, whereas the next European city on the list, London (25) is down seven places. In 28th position, St. Petersburg is up one place. Paris (37) is down 10 places, whereas Milan (38), Rome (42), Stockholm (46), Vienna (48) and Amsterdam (57) are all down from seven to 13 places. Helsinki (65) and Prague (69) have both slid down the list, 23 and 22 places respectively. Brussels (71) dropped a more moderate nine places, followed by Dublin (72) – down 14 places. Ranking 207, Skopje, Macedonia, is the least expensive city for expatriates in Europe.

Ms Constantin-Métral explained: “Despite some marked price increases across the region in the first half of last year and widespread increases in VAT charges, most European cities dropped in the ranking. This is mainly due to the unstable economic situation across Europe, which has led to the depreciation of most local currencies against the US dollar. Countries badly hit by the Eurozone crisis, including Greece, Italy and Spain, have also experienced drops in rental accommodation prices.”

NB "Health Warning" taken from Mercer Website - The figures for Mercer’s cost of living and rental accommodation costs comparisons are derived from a survey conducted in March 2012. March 2012 exchange rates and Mercer’s international basket of goods and services have been used as basis measurements. The information is used by governments and major companies to protect the purchasing power of their employees when transferred abroad; rental accommodation costs data is used to assess local expatriate housing allowances. The choice of cities surveyed is based on the demand for data.
According to the Guardian the 200 sample products are used by Mercer but mention is only made in the downloaded tables to: Rent of a luxury two bedroom unfurnished apartment (per month) Cinema, international release, 1 seat 1 pair of blue jeans 1 issue of international daily newspaper 1 cup of coffee, including service Fast food hamburger meal One liter of gasoline, unleaded 95 octane Milk, pasteurized whole milk, above 2.5% fat (1lt / 33.8 oz) 1 litre of soda. Obviously if you want the full tables then you have to pay Mercer for them!

The food prices are taken from "medium priced" supermarkets. New York prices provide the base to the index.
Here are the links: Guardian http://www.guardian....ving-2012-tokyo
Mercer http://www.mercer.co...living-rankings