Bienes Personales Question

[Ries]

its cheaper to deal with bienes now, even with penalties, than to wait until you try to sell your property- then, they will assess higher taxes and penalties, and you will have them deducted from closing payments.

 

[nikad]

If I have a property, the value of which is under 305k according to the escritura, but over 305k according to the ABL invoice, should I be paying this tax?

And if I have owned said property for about 5 years and have never paid it, but should have been, what would be the best thing to do? If I go and try to put everything in order, am I going to be charged a fortune in interest and penalties? Should I continue to ignore it and wait and see if the rules/limits are changed in the next couple of years??

It would be best to talk to an accountant. Some people never pay this tax when the property they own is the place where they live ( and where they think they will always be ) If you know this is not your case, it will be best to talk to an accountant. If things change, they will be in the future ( new laws cannot change acquired rights or obligations )

 

[nikad]

its cheaper to deal with bienes now, even with penalties, than to wait until you try to sell your property- then, they will assess higher taxes and penalties, and you will have them deducted from closing payments.

This is true, the notary dealing with this sale has to hold the money to pay for any debts and taxes owed.

 

[steveinbsas]

Apparently some Argentine never pay the bienes personales and AFIP never demands payment? They only collect the back taxes and interest if and when someone sells their property?

I know a non-resident foreigner would have to pay any and all back bienes personales in order to get permission to sell their property, but what about an Argentine who has been living in their deceased parents home (worth more than $305,000 in previous years), never had an escritura or done anything to get the property in their name because they owned other property and didn't want the combined total to push them over the $305K threshold?

In previous years there have been several posts by very unhappy non-resident foreigners who only learned about the bienes tax when they asked AFIP for "permission" to sell their property. I know a foreigner who bought an apartment in 2009 and in 2010 he received a letter from AFIP asking him for payment. He used a "buyer's agent" who charged 2% on top of the buyers commission to the inmobliaria, but the agent never informed him about the tax.

And, what about someone who owns one property (with a recorded title) who buys another and "flips" the property to another buyer without ever putting the property in their name...and that buyer doesn't have an escritura, either, also waiting to resell? Assuming the original seller signed the escribana's book, who, if anyone is (or was) liable for the tax...if and when there is an escritura for the property? I know the liability for the tax is determined by the owner as of December 31st, but in that kind of scenario who is responsible for the tax, the first buyer or the second who is in "possession" of the property (with utilities in their name)?

The last one may sound somewhat (if not highly unlikely), but I'm trying to "create" an "interesting" expat character for my screenplay about expats living in Argentina. A true to life, turnstile jumping international fugitive who doesn't pay his call center employees is really too mundane, but a Ferrari driving, multimillionaire from Texas who is also a professional "soccer" agent, runs a Texas Bar-b-Que joint in BA while delving into Scientology and flipping luxury apartments in his spare time might just fill the bill.

PS: In the USA non-payment of property taxes can result in the property being sold at auction. I've seen ads at the Banco Ciudad for auctions of property that I believe were ordered by AFIP. Could non-payment of the bienes trigger such a sale? An expat losing a property for not paying the bienes would be a even more horrific if he/she never knew about the tax.

 

[sergio]

Bienes personales is not a property tax, is it? isn't the ABL the Property tax?

 

[steveinbsas]

Bienes personales is not a property tax, is it? isn't the ABL the Property tax?

Yes, the ABL is a property tax and the bienes personales is an asset tax.

What I wonder is what would happen to someone who did not pay the bienes personales for many years in the situations I wrote about in my previous post. At what point would AFIP sieze a property (if ever) for non-payment of the bienes and what if there is any uncertainty about who is the "legal" owner and how that would be determined and resolved.

I'm really looking for the worst case scenario to include it in a conversation among expats: One of those "Did you hear about the expat who (fill in the blank) because of AFIP?" anecdotes, rather than having it actually happen to one of the characters in the story.,,just like the young expat who met an Argentine woman in a bar and later woke up in his hotel room, missing everything except his underwear. He obviously also missed the BA episode of "Scam City."

 

[Ries]

I have never heard of AFIP seizing a property like this.
And I have met many people who have inherited properties and who have very little money, and are most likely NOT paying bienes.
I think that in most cases, an Argentine citizen could get away not paying bienes for pretty much their whole life.
Only if the property is sold would it be assessed.
And I think in many cases, one way or another, if it stays in the family, bienes still doesnt get paid at the death of the owner.

I know that even if you dont pay your expensas in a building on an apartment you own, it is virtually unheard of to lose the apartment.
Yes, theoretically, after some lengthy years long legal process, the building can win in court, but this is Argentina.

 

[cafeamericano]

Hey Everyone,
According to the PDF at the link below, if you are a temporary resident and don't have the intention of staying permanently, you are not subject to the bienes personales tax. Basically the impuesto a las ganancias is applicable if you are a temporary resident for more than one year, but the bienes personales has more to do with where you intend your PERMANENT residency to be. Am I reading that correctly?

I have read that bienes personales is to be eliminated in 2019. If I stay as a temporary resident for three years (until 2020) and then convert to permanent residency, would I owe back taxes for the bienes personales even though the tax has been eliminated by then (assuming that plan is followed through with the the Arg government)? I'm honestly not 100% sure if I will be staying permanently, but would be worried to make the move if there is a possibility for bienes personales back taxes if I decide to stay permanently.

http://www.dsya-consultores.com.ar/Informes/Residencia.pdf