Boric winning handily in Chile

[Pierre Smith]

Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, now Chile. Very sad. I just hope that the Senate can block most of his most destructive moves.

 

[antipodean]

Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, now Chile. Very sad. I just hope that the Senate can block most of his most destructive moves.

I doubt Chile will end up a dumpster fire like some of those countries.

Remember who won in Peru and who despite all the fiery electoral rhetoric, has been actually demonstrated himself to act like a boring old centrist who who advocates some important social policies but doesn’t (or can’t) meddle too much in business. Life goes on and investment continues to flow in, despite initial market jitters immediately following the election.

Unlike Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Argentina countries like Chile and Peru generally have far stronger and more diverse institutions that serve as checks and balances against presidents with a one-track agenda.

Plus this guy does not represent some kind of outdated militant cult of personality (Chavez, Peron/ Kirchner, Evo etc) and he seems to promote a more European styled agenda, which makes sense since Chile (like Peru) has gotten much richer over the past decades thanks to its business friendly policies and “stable” governance and monetary policy to date that by now everyone wants a slice of that pie and see some of that wealth flow back to them by means of better social services and quality of life. Unlike Argentina, Chile actually has money to be able to do that.

 

[Pierre Smith]

^ I hope this is true, and Castillo is a good counterpoint, but Peru is a special case, and has basically uninterrupted centrist rule since the end of Fujimorismo, owing essentially to the fact that it's almost perfectly politically divided, and the Fujimori gang blocks any significant lurch in any particular direction. Also, once elected, all the presidents adopt the preferences of the elites, out of self interest (ie. corruption).

Chile is different, and we saw that with the full scale riots that roiled the country and tanked its economy. The crucial - and I mean crucial - thing coming up is that Chile is about to adopt a far left constitution that will fundamentally alter a large number of the very institutions that an optimistic person might hope would constrain Boric and his communist pals. It looks very grim, and the one hope is that maybe if Boric tanks the country, in four years there can be a major correction.

Thank god this gang doesn't have unified control of the legislature. I feel true pity today for anyone who owns a business or hopes for a better life in Chile.

 

[ventanilla]

Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, now Chile. Very sad. I just hope that the Senate can block most of his most destructive moves.

Very telling that for you the fascist son of an actual bonafide WW2 era Nazi would not have been 'very sad', but someone who doesn't want poor people to die is.

The virulent hatred that some expats have of poor people in Latin America, especially non-white ones, is very obvious and disgusting.

 

[dsp27]

Boric was the obvious and better choice for Chile. The country needs a little "walk" to the left for a few years. Yes GDP and wealth have increased tremendously in the past 20 years but only 1/3 of the population has benefited in a meaningful way and when you let inequality increase to these proportions things eventually implode. Chile unlike Argentina has strong institutions and good systems of checks and balances. And ultimately, despite the rhetorics, Boric is a pragmatic politician, who knows his agenda could only survive in a moderate form in a split legislature.

 

[sts7049]

Very telling that for you the fascist son of an actual bonafide WW2 era Nazi would not have been 'very sad', but someone who doesn't want poor people to die is.

The virulent hatred that some expats have of poor people in Latin America, especially non-white ones, is very obvious and disgusting.

i didn't see him anywhere pining for the right wing candidate. did i miss that? just simply commenting on the creep towards socialism and all the wonderful examples we already have of those "highly functioning" countries in that list.

believe it or not, it is possible to dislike both candidates.

 

[FrankPintor]

Boric was the obvious and better choice for Chile. The country needs a little "walk" to the left for a few years. Yes GDP and wealth have increased tremendously in the past 20 years but only 1/3 of the population has benefited in a meaningful way and when you let inequality increase to these proportions things eventually implode. Chile unlike Argentina has strong institutions and good systems of checks and balances. And ultimately, despite the rhetorics, Boric is a pragmatic politician, who knows his agenda could only survive in a moderate form in a split legislature.

I'm not so sure about the "strong institutions" part, which of the two countries, Argentina and Chile, was able to prosecute and jail its dictators? There's a lot of subversion of institutions going on behind the scenes in Chile, with high-ranking armed forces officials accused of corruption. And Pinochet-era officials enjoying their retirement in a comfy prison run by the army. More topically, you also have the slow-walking of the prosecution of the shoot-to-blind repression of protests in 2019.

As you say, GDP and wealth have increased tremendously, I hope Boric will finally use this mandate free university education (taking the funds from the armed forces). Chile's education system is shameful for a country with its wealth and income from copper mining.

 

[dsp27]

I'm not so sure about the "strong institutions" part, which of the two countries, Argentina and Chile, was able to prosecute and jail its dictators? There's a lot of subversion of institutions going on behind the scenes in Chile, with high-ranking armed forces officials accused of corruption. And Pinochet-era officials enjoying their retirement in a comfy prison run by the army. More topically, you also have the slow-walking of the prosecution of the shoot-to-blind repression of protests in 2019.

As you say, GDP and wealth have increased tremendously, I hope Boric will finally use this mandate free university education (taking the funds from the armed forces). Chile's education system is shameful for a country with its wealth and income from copper mining.

Strong institutions and checks and balances are all "perceived". Ultimately it's about regular people trusting the system and the institutions that support the balance. Chileans and Brazilians are a lot more "confident" in their institutions even if they are far from perfect or even perhaps not much better than the Argentine ones, frankly [no pun intended Frank]. Argentines' sense of je ne sais when it comes to the "State" is just unhealthy and it's due to el Peronismo...IMO.

 

[Pierre Smith]

At any rate, it seems strange to me that a number of people from countries that have become wealthy precisely by rejecting Argentine- or Boric-style government, and then translate their benefits and share of that wealth into expatriation in Argentina, are now cheering the doom of Argentina's next door neighbor. It's a pretty wild thing.

My sense is that American politics has made a lot of people - even foreigners - sort of crazy, where they feel safe advancing radical ideas they know will never come to fruition in America, and cheer when countries in which they have no real investment and only a passing interest (here, Chile) take those ideas on, because they've decided that the cold embrace of the abyss is better than the incremental change that sensible people run as a rule.

I'm not a fan of Kast, and everyone I know in Santiago abstained (tells you who I traffic with), but I think it's straight up crazy to be happy that Boric was elected president of Chile.

I dearly hope to be proved wrong, but as Argentina and pretty much every other country in South America have shown us, when this happens, it's not good.

 

[dsp27]

This is not about left or right but a question of inequality. As societies become less equal all the benefits of economic growth are skewed toward a few privileged segments of society. If those elites fail to recognize what's happening and adjust, you see revolts and revolutions. Think the French Revolution and Marie Antoinette. Argentina is not in this current state because of the leftist polices but cause of the incompetence of the Peronismo and the Kirschnerismo. Look at Turkey and Erdogan and his "market friendly" policies. The problem is el Populismo.