Bratty Argentine Children & Public Tantrums

[laureltp]

Wait... you haven't seen any fat Argentine kids?? I see fat Argentine kids ALL THE TIME.
I don't see much of this tempter tantrum stuff being mentioned, but in general note the parental apathy. I think it's similar to the lack of regard for personal space (on the streets or anywhere), maybe a little too much "no pasa nada". Sleep dep makes a lot of sense.

I think there are fat Argentine kids but not that many, not enough to call it a problem anyway. I don't know where you are from, but at least in the US there a heck of a lot more there than here.

But that doesn't really say much. I recently discovered the average woman in the US weights about 73 kilos (160lbs) and the average man weights 86 kilos (190lbs). Of course those are adult statistics but I don't think the children are doing very good with the weight issue either.

 

[MizzMarr]

I think there are fat Argentine kids but not that many, not enough to call it a problem anyway. I don't know where you are from, but at least in the US there a heck of a lot more there than here.

But that doesn't really say much. I recently discovered the average woman in the US weights about 73 kilos (160lbs) and the average man weights 86 kilos (190lbs). Of course those are adult statistics but I don't think the children are doing very good with the weight issue either.

Oh, I'm from the States. I was just responding to Jennifer's comment about the comment about local diet here and not having seen any fat Argentine kids. To me this wasn't a comment on international diet or obseity. There are many, many more fat people in the US, inarguably. When I came to Argentina it was very rare to see an obese person (if you did you could almost put money on whether they were from the US or Britain), and most locals were very slender. However, I have seen a dramatic rise in the amount visibly obese people here in BA since 2006 (just speaking to Buenos Aires Cap Fed, not the provincias since I don't spend enough time outside of Capital to comment knowledgably). This absolutely includes children--little kids and adolescents. When I do see a fat child I can't help but notice whether they are eating or drinking, and almost invariably the little fat ones are eating candy and/or drinking soda.

 

[LAtoBA]

I haven't had much direct personal experience with bratty, but that may be because I seldom hang out in places where kids would go or want to go.

But this lack of sleep phenomena here fascinates me, and has produced the theory that maybe at least one of the reasons Argentina is still a developing country, since it has every reason to be developed already, is because the population is too sleep-deprived to do much work during the day, and too brain-dead to think creatively at work. Sloppy brains produce sloppy work habits, which lead to crumbling infrastructure. It's not about money, it's about the inability to think at anything near full capability. Everybody rocks at night when they party, then sleepwalk through the day. If rocking the night away is one's definite of the good life, then fine, but you can't at same time complain that nothing gets done, the society has no creativity, and the the country is crumbling around the edges.

There isn't a medical study I am aware of that doesn't make it plain and clear that in order to function anywhere near one's full mental capacity, the brain needs from 7 to 9 hours sleep a day, and that includes about 4 hours of deep sleep -- so little naps don't count. It is also medically proven that eating large amounts of food late at night are the source of many gastrointestinal problems and produce fast track weight gain. So how does this society function?

My classic example is the single mother - daughter family next door. The girl appears to be maybe 15 or 16. Often I see her all dressed up and heading out for the evening at just about the time I am getting into bed. I awaken early by habit, and just as frequently I see the TV light in her room flickering at 6 a.m. She leaves for school, in her little uniform, at 7:45. I have no clue when this girl sleeps.

All this is very interesting, I think, and I wonder about its effect on Argentine society.

That is very interesting....the sleep deprivation thing. And maybe has something to do with parental apathy.

Anyone familiar with Italian or Spanish society? Is it normal to be light on the discipline?

 

[laureltp]

However, I have seen a dramatic rise in the amount visibly obese people here in BA since 2006 (just speaking to Buenos Aires Cap Fed, not the provincias since I don't spend enough time outside of Capital to comment knowledgably). This absolutely includes children--little kids and adolescents. When I do see a fat child I can't help but notice whether they are eating or drinking, and almost invariably the little fat ones are eating candy and/or drinking soda.

That's sad. I mean, children shouldn't be fat, their parents should be monitoring what they eat. I am the youngest of 5 kids, my Mama made us eat our veggies, and well, none of us were fat kids (even if a couple of my brothers got chubby after 30 ).

Too bad they are making the same mistakes we are!! I am pretty much certain that an overdose on sugar and a bad diet doesn't do any good for their behavior problems either. Personally the healthier I eat the happier I am. When I eat crappy food I kind of feel crappy, simple as that.

 

[perry]

MizzMarr is 100% right about the dramatic rise of obesity in Argentina and the unhealthy food choices of argentinian children who are in grave peril with their diets . I believe that the families can teach the children from a very early age to make good choices in foods and also prepare them cheap healthy lunches . Its a myth that to eat healthy is expensive .

I believe that the youth of Argentina are not being disciplined nor are they are being properly taught by their parents and society to become better citizens. The lack of manners of people these days is sad and Buenos Aires seems to be one of the worse places to see this world wide phenomenon.

 

[JoeBlow]

Anyone familiar with Italian or Spanish society? Is it normal to be light on the discipline?

I think all of us who think we should impose 8:00 bedtimes on children should also consider how anal US society is (tons and tons of uptight people).

If I can talk out my ass a bit, we might also want to consider that perhaps (stress on the "perhaps") there is so much violence in the US because children are really forced to behave politely (and the rules and laws and regulations never stop, even into adulthood).

A theory I think about but can't totally prove to myself.

 

[Eternalnewbie]

I think all of us who think we should impose 8:00 bedtimes on children should also consider how anal US society is (tons and tons of uptight people).

If I can talk out my ass a bit, we might also want to consider that perhaps (stress on the "perhaps") there is so much violence in the US because children are really forced to behave politely (and the rules and laws and regulations never stop, even into adulthood).

A theory I think about but can't totally prove to myself.

This brief comments manages to raise a large number of separate issues around a large number of assumptions. Were that life this simple and explanations this easy.

But the agenda is clear enough in the word choices: impose, anal, uptight, forced ... . And the implications unstated, but also logically clear.

Are all rules for children wrong-headed, or only the ones sending them to bed at 8? Do rules for children lead them to violent behavior? Is being polite the path to violence? Is America a uniquely horrid and violent place because all Americans are "anal?" These sorts of questions arise from simple assumptions.

I wonder about different things. I wonder why anyone is violent, why violence exists? I wonder why humans are inclined to hate purposelessly? I wonder why clear, logical, and self-evident rules for common behavior are so difficult to grasp? I wonder why the Internet -- such a grand invention for the development of human knowledge -- so quickly degenerated into a cesspool where fountains of bigotry, hatred, anger, and bitterness boil? I wonder why there is no respect for or protection of all sentient life?

And back to this topic: I wonder why people are so utterly self-focused that they have come to believe they are the only living thing on the planet with the freedom to act as they please, nothing else in the world matters outside of the "me."

Thus, the madly barking dogs, the insane laying of hands on car horns, the unnerving screams and shouts of good fun when others need to sleep, the unnecessary violence attending easy thefts, the slapping of the wife who disagrees, the beating of the child who disobeys, the murder of a citizenry who have taken up other superstitions, even the bile spewed throughout the "blogosphere" against any other side.

Beats me.

 

[NoPat]

On my last visit to BA last Feb I went to see Avatar on the late show starting
sometime after 10:30pm, & chose that screening just so that I would avoid kids in there
(film would end at around 1am).

I found the perfect seat, and just after I settled to enjoy a comfy view,
right behind me sat a couple of parents with their kid about age 5 or 6,
who inevitably started kicking the seats in front of his (i.e. mine),
talking loud (i.e. borderline screaming) and being typically
hyperactive.

What really did it for me is what most people have already said here:
the adults reaction. I looked at the parents with a murderous glare
and they were innocently oblivious, wondering why that man was
looking at them at all & in such crazy way. Then I made a passing comment to the woman
sitting next to me, I said something like "how is it possible that some people take their kids
that age to screenings this late", and her response was this:
she remained silent, her whole body language said "I feel threatened by a
possible rapist" and moved away from me to a vacant seat further down
the aisle with disgust in her face.

 

[Gringoboy]

In a word Discipline. Good old fashioned variety and I'm not talking violence here, like smacking and shaking etc.
I'm a stepfather to a 13 year old Argentine boy and although the lad has a heart of gold he simply didn't have a clue about discipline before I arrived on the scene 5 years ago. His dad had left leaving Mum with quite a job on her hands, but by that time he was already accustomed to the complete lack of any control. As time has gone on he has imho, benefited from learning how to use a knife and fork, learning not to swear at or hit his Mother.
He still doesn't take a blind bit of notice of his Mum on the domestic front, 'ya voy' being the favourite response. But when I step in as the 'father figure' and simply say 'just do it', he jumps.
I'm not seeking any credit for this but he has finally accepted that he can only take it so far.
It's all in the hands of the parents, no doubt.

 

[citygirl]

I don't have children but I am the aunt to 10 and counting nieces and nephews. In my experience, children certainly can behave well if taught consistently and kindly what the rules are and what the consequences are for breaking them.

With my nieces and nephews, they were taught how to behave in restaurants or any public event at a very young age. When they acted out, as children inevitably do, my sis-in-law or brother simply took them for a walk or time-out. If they could regain their composure, they were allowed to return. If not, they were taken home. No threats, no physical discipline - just consistent rules. The children very quickly learned that acting out meant that they missed out on the fun and seeing everyone.

Granted, during this "training" period, my siblings had to leave a few events early. But it was short-term pain for a very long-term benefit. Those kids are some of the best-behaved I've had the pleasure of dealing with.

And it's not soul-crushing to impose rules nor does it lead to violence or anything else. Like it or not, the world works on rules. If kids don't learn early what no is and that actions have consequences, how are they ever going to be able to be productive members of society? what happens to those kids when they get to school and have a problem with the teacher? or a job and they have a problem with the boss?

It's my opinion that with kids (as with pets), firm, consistent and kind but strict feedback is the best favor you can do for them.