Bratty Argentine Children & Public Tantrums

[irishvan]

A lack of discipline is common in latin and middle eastern society, particularly with sons. Basically they can do whatever they want.
With bedtimes, the custom of children going to bed before their parents seems to only hold in anglo saxon origin countries. In asia the children stay up with their parents, though particularly in Japan and Korea they would probably not be out of the house.

 

[JoeBlow]

I wonder about different things. I wonder why anyone is violent, why violence exists? I wonder why humans are inclined to hate purposelessly?

I wonder why clear, logical, and self-evident rules for common behavior are so difficult to grasp? I wonder why the Internet -- such a grand invention for the development of human knowledge -- so quickly degenerated into a cesspool where fountains of bigotry, hatred, anger, and bitterness boil? I wonder why there is no respect for or protection of all sentient life?

Humans learn to hate, that's my simple philosophy. Just like we learn to hate we learn myriad other behavior (can I use myriad like that?).

For most of our societies, this life actually IS all about "me". We learn to behave like that, but we can teach each other (or our children) differently.

We are the biggest imitators on Earth, but this is not a bad thing. Once we accept that we imitate each other all the time, we'll (eventually) stop hating each other. That's what I think anways.

Also, my opinion is there is no more hate on the internet than in real life (since internet is used by real people).

 

[fifs2]

I half fear that the OP is referring to my child in his very justified rant...so IK apologise to you and all people who have to suffer as a result of our parental failings. To be honest I had previosuly thought I was a real super mother with my first child (born in US) and an absolute ray of sunshine in terms of his sunny personality, real desire to help other kids learn English, assist the tacher, eating brussel sprouts etc..he`s a pure 10/10 in terms of a child and especially re his behavior in public and private. He has slept 12hours a night from 8 weeks of age btw.
Now we have the little Argentinean...and all started well with 12 hour sleeps and eating everything presented to him but now we have hit the terrible 2s and I´m realising my absolute lack of parental skills in the face of a whining, manipulative little bossy boots who willfully throws real wobblers in public, combined with the lying on the floor, fist slamming and howling at full throttle. The naughty step works at home but I´m at a loss as to how to control his moods in public when I don´t really like him very much and feel mortified that the general public has to have their ears subjected to this. Such was our flight back from Europe 2 weeks ago..I ran him up and down the plane for 12 hours solid and locked us both in the toilet when the screaming got really bad...and god knows how but everyone on the plane was so nice about him which I deeply appreciate. So he does sleep 12 hours a night and doesnt eat sugary or refined food..and he`s a little brat..figure that!

Personal info aside I really think we need not impose our cultural stereotypes on Argentina. People here genuinely love their children and embrace them at all times..whereas you may tend to see many babies propped in prams or playpens in the rest of the world here parents cant stop cuddling them and holding them which I think has taught me a lot about my approach to physical contact. I also know lots of mums here who do have a systematic approach to feeding and sleeping times so it`s not likley to be a general symptom of lack of sleep etc but I do find the arguemtn re sleep depreivationa nd country development an interesting one. There are brats all over the world...perhaps abroad we have learnt to use smacking, shouting and time outs in a more systematic way but I also wonder if we continue to subconsciously see kids as a necessary annoyance instead of a pure and miraculous joy...anyway since I have now started contradicting myself I will end here and let the condemnations come as they may for confessing to not liking my own child etc.

And please noone recommend therapy for me or my son..that is soemthing that I find quite crazy here putting 3 year old kids and upwards in therapy for biting, being shy, stress etc. I am confident enough to believe that my son will outgrow his caprichos with time and consistent discipline without throwing pesos at some doctor to tell me the same.

 

[polostar88]

Yes this is something I've noticed for a long time here...kids throwing tantrums in public and parents doing nothing at all. In Brazil if a kid pulls this kind of shit and you glare at the mother, she will smack him because she's embarrassed to be seen as uncivilized by a foreigner LOL

But here it's another story, I've never seen anything like this. I too almost never sleep...I've gone into 24 hr restaurants late at night to read thinking I'd be alone...I mean at 2 AM on a Thursday I've seen families with small kids out at a restaurant wtf??

What really disgusts me though, and what I've only seen rarely to this extent in a few other countries is how the parents here spoil their children...this is bad for girls but especially bad for boys...I've seen fathers coochy-coo boys of like 5, 6 yrs old, kiss them in public and this sort of thing. It's sickening to see, and it's no wonder so many of the young guys here turn out by 17 and older to be little-lord Fauntleroy douchebags.

Unfortunately because of the spoiled little prince effeminate manner of the men here I've never had a male Argentinian friend of my age despite living here for a while. This is not a Latin thing because the men in Brazil are generally not like this for example. In fact it's much closer to the spoiled character of many American boys today who are similarly pampered and entitled and feminized and grow up to worship another prissy momma's boy like Oboma.

Oh and you see this happening in the US too...parents totally letting their kids out of control, throwing tantrums...it's just that in the US you see it more rarely because in the big cities children don't go out as much (and people don't really have children in the big cities) and outside big cities you're always in your car, etc.

 

[arty]

That is very interesting....the sleep deprivation thing. And maybe has something to do with parental apathy.

Anyone familiar with Italian or Spanish society? Is it normal to be light on the discipline?

My family is 2nd generation Italians in the USA and we got hit all the time when we were little.

 

[LAtoBA]

I half fear that the OP is referring to my child in his very justified rant...so IK apologise to you and all people who have to suffer as a result of our parental failings. To be honest I had previosuly thought I was a real super mother with my first child (born in US) and an absolute ray of sunshine in terms of his sunny personality, real desire to help other kids learn English, assist the tacher, eating brussel sprouts etc..he`s a pure 10/10 in terms of a child and especially re his behavior in public and private. He has slept 12hours a night from 8 weeks of age btw.
Now we have the little Argentinean...and all started well with 12 hour sleeps and eating everything presented to him but now we have hit the terrible 2s and I´m realising my absolute lack of parental skills in the face of a whining, manipulative little bossy boots who willfully throws real wobblers in public, combined with the lying on the floor, fist slamming and howling at full throttle. The naughty step works at home but I´m at a loss as to how to control his moods in public when I don´t really like him very much and feel mortified that the general public has to have their ears subjected to this. Such was our flight back from Europe 2 weeks ago..I ran him up and down the plane for 12 hours solid and locked us both in the toilet when the screaming got really bad...and god knows how but everyone on the plane was so nice about him which I deeply appreciate. So he does sleep 12 hours a night and doesnt eat sugary or refined food..and he`s a little brat..figure that!

Personal info aside I really think we need not impose our cultural stereotypes on Argentina. People here genuinely love their children and embrace them at all times..whereas you may tend to see many babies propped in prams or playpens in the rest of the world here parents cant stop cuddling them and holding them which I think has taught me a lot about my approach to physical contact. I also know lots of mums here who do have a systematic approach to feeding and sleeping times so it`s not likley to be a general symptom of lack of sleep etc but I do find the arguemtn re sleep depreivationa nd country development an interesting one. There are brats all over the world...perhaps abroad we have learnt to use smacking, shouting and time outs in a more systematic way but I also wonder if we continue to subconsciously see kids as a necessary annoyance instead of a pure and miraculous joy...anyway since I have now started contradicting myself I will end here and let the condemnations come as they may for confessing to not liking my own child etc.

And please noone recommend therapy for me or my son..that is soemthing that I find quite crazy here putting 3 year old kids and upwards in therapy for biting, being shy, stress etc. I am confident enough to believe that my son will outgrow his caprichos with time and consistent discipline without throwing pesos at some doctor to tell me the same.

Had a nice long post ready but it got erased. Anyway your post made laugh.

I wonder if the lackadaisical nature of parents here is just a spill over of the relaxed and lackadaisical nature of Argentines in general? I'm just trying to figure out where does it come from? Does the boom and bust cycle of the economy have something to do with it? And more importantly is this just a phenomenom of the middle class and wealthy? Do poor children behave like this here? I've never seen that.

I don't know I guess I'm from the camp if you're constantly loving and loving and giving children everything they want and desire.....what the hell do they have to look for when they get older? Family is important and I respect that. But the cultural significance of "family" is not an Argentine trait, it's a Latin American one. I can think of no other latin american country where family wasn't important. It's just that the spoil, spoil, nature of children here is something new to me.

 

[mmoon]

I think a fair amount of child rearing here is not being done by parents or nannies, but by maids, whose responsibilities and skills are generally more geared toward cooking and cleaning, rather than attending to the whims of kids who are getting dumped on them while the parents are out and about. It seems like most of the people here who are middle class have full time maids, whether or not both parents are working. I can't imagine keeping a maid busy full time in my little apartment anyway!

I guess we all have a least one jaw dropping story...I was out to eat a couple of months ago and left the table for a few minutes. When I got back to my chair, a child (of at least five) from the table next door was literally crawling over my chair and putting his greasy hands on the window. The two moms at his table were so busy gossiping and answering their ever-present cell phones that they didn't even notice. (My dining companion was so shocked he couldn't even speak!) The little brat moved before I had to say something, but I don't think it would have done any good anyway. Clearly, the moms couldn't care less if they were disrupting the whole restaurant.

I think it's a problem pretty much everywhere, but especially extreme here.

 

[Gringoboy]

When we were kids in the sixties and my mum and dad went to the pub, we were left in the car with a bottle of lemonade and some crisps.
They would come back and check on us from time to time.Never left any traumatic scars, no siree!

 

[perry]

I understand fully the idea of close family as my own community is similar to the argentine. I do believe that spoiling and catering to the childs every whim is counter productive for them and that is why many people in their older age here react in a juvenile manner . Fostering independence and strong spirits comes from the home and sadly we are living in the worst of a me me age.

 

[Gringoboy]

Unfortunately many parents leave the discipline to the the teachers and then become surprised when their kids take no notice of them when they come home.