Buenos Aires via USA?

[tangobob]

Wow - I had no idea that the US charged a fee and required a visa for transit passengers. That is really awful.

If you are British you come under the Visa Waver scheme and do not have to pay. I do not know what if any other countries are covered by this, but even we Brits have our bags searched by the US customs.

 

[seeker]

Last time I did London BA via Toronto, and the experience was not pleasant. Our passports were checked..(why?) as soon as we left the plane, then we had to officially enter Canada, which involves showing your passport again at immigration. The immigration official wasn't especially awful, but did ask me why I wanted to enter Canada, and looked pissed off when I said that I didn't, that I was simply en route for Buenos Aires. I also had to collect my baggage from that plane, and then take the baggage through customs. The customs girl was okay, I mean, as a person... just doing her job. But I felt that she did ask terribly impertinent questions. When I told her that I had no intention of staying in Canada, she wanted to know where I was going. "Buenos Aires", I said. She started asking me what I was doing there, how was I going to support myself, how long I was staying, why I was carrying so little luggage, I mean, wtf has it got to do with you? and really, It made me very uncomfortable. The situation is an extremely abnormal one. Why are they asking all these questions to people transiting to other countries is beyond me. They really ought to know that it's really bad for business to carry on like this. It's also a complete waste of time for everyone involved. And having officials sit there and ask silly questions is expensive. These guys are paid to do this.

The most bizarre thing is that you really do enter Canada. If I wanted to, I could have taken a cab into Toronto, totally legally, as I had passed customs and immigration. So whatever the Canadians might think, this is in no way a healthy situation for their own version of Homeland security. I would think that this is a relatively easy way for a terrorist/trafficker to enter Canada. Buy a ticket to Argentina, land at Toronto, say you are just passing through, but just stay in Canada. It's nuts, really it is.

Unless the situation has changed, I would avoid passing through North America. The situation sucks badly.

Sorry about the rant

 

[sesamosinsal]

The most bizarre thing is that you really do enter Canada. If I wanted to, I could have taken a cab into Toronto, totally legally, as I had passed customs and immigration. So whatever the Canadians might think, this is in no way a healthy situation for their own version of Homeland security. I would think that this is a relatively easy way for a terrorist/trafficker to enter Canada. Buy a ticket to Argentina, land at Toronto, say you are just passing through, but just stay in Canada. It's nuts, really it is.

I don't know how it is in Canada, but I would assume it's the same in Canada as it is in the U.S. (Americans love Canadians, and vice versa, right?) At least in the U.S., a person carrying a UK passport would not have to have a visa. They would just have to register themselves with ESTA.

If you're a known trafficker/terrorist or you carry a passport from a country that may raise suspicion, you'll either not get through or you won't even be able to board the flight to Canada or the U.S. because you'll have to have the visa first.

It's a pain in the ass, but welcome to the post-9/11 world in which we all live. What do you expect when four airplanes get hijacked and three are flown into iconic buildings on U.S. territory, resulting in the deaths of thousands of people?

Customs people in the U.S. aren't the most friendly, but I can't really think of any place in the world where the customs people have been a bunch of Pollyannas.

 

[citygirl]

But that's what I don't get - why have them go through Customs at all? Why can't they just stay in "sterile" areas of the airport since they're just transiting through, esp with a short layover?

I'm a US citizen and unpleasant customs experiences aren't just for foreigners traveling through. I routinely get asked the purpose of my visit to the US, where I plan on staying, what I plan on doing while I'm there, etc. And I hold a US passport.

 

[sesamosinsal]

I am a U.S. citizen as well. I think they've said "Welcome home" to me a few times. Other than that, they ask me where I've been, what I was doing, and give me the stamp. They may have asked me where my final destination in the U.S. is, but that's about it.

I'm not sure what the argument is. However, I imagine that they don't even want the possibility of a terrorist/shady character even being in an airport in the U.S. Allowing them to wait in the transit areas could open up opportunities... The U.S. probably also wants to keep track of the people getting on U.S. airplanes. Having people get a transit visa or register with ESTA is a good way for them to do that...

I have flown to EZE via Toronto, and I thought it was odd that they had to stamp my passport. But they didn't give me any problems. Even if they did ask me where I was going and what I was doing in Buenos Aires, I have nothing to hide.

I totally see where you are coming from, though.

 

[seeker]

Yes Citygirl, that's exactly the point. Anybody just passing through North America shouldn't be subjected to this nonsense.

Imagine arriving at London en route for, say Japan, and having to have a meaningless "conversation" with British immigration about your reasons for wanting to visit Britain, then a similarly meaningless convo with UK customs about how you are going to support yourself in Japan. It ain't gonna happen, because the British haven't yet taken leave of their senses.

If someone could explain to me why the North Americans choose to do this, why it's good for security/how it fights crime/whatever, then..well, I'm open to persuasion, really I am. But sincerely, I just don't get it. At best it appears to be a serious case of uncontrolled job creation for busybodies. At worst, it could be seen as an awful example of unaccountable government. It's not like I get to vote on my treatment while in North America, so surely, it's best to vote with feet. Avoid passing through North America until the situation is resolved for the better. Which I should be, and damn soon.

I don't want to sound trite, but this in no way affects my opinion of Americans/CAnadians or of the USA and Canada once actually inside those countries. I'm not even complaining about aggressive questioning if I want to enter those countries. I am just saying..why do they question transit passengers in this way. Someone must realize that I do have a choice, I can choose to go via, say, Madrid instead, and avoid the "you are our property now you asshole" line of questioning/reasoning...

 

[tangobob]

I
It's a pain in the ass, but welcome to the post-9/11 world in which we all live. What do you expect when four airplanes get hijacked and three are flown into iconic buildings on U.S. territory, resulting in the deaths of thousands of people?
.

Sorry to go off topic, but do you realise, the three planes were American Airlines, so what was the immediate response from the US government? well they stopped all foreign flights. This made nearly as much sense as making me go through customs when I am in transit.

 

[sesamosinsal]

Actually, there were only 2 AA jets. I think it's irrelevant whether they were domestic or international flights. The U.S. sees allowing people to travel here without a visa as a loophole, even if they are just in transit. The U.S., I imagine, wants to know who is coming through U.S. airports and who is boarding planes originating from the U.S.

Otherwise, a "terrorist" could board a U.S. plane in transit, and maybe, just maybe, kill everyone with a box cutter and fly the plane into another iconic building.

I am not here defending what the U.S. government does. I am merely trying to try to put some ideas out there as to why the U.S. does what it does. I think a lot of our policies are rooted in paranoia, and I think many of them are extreme. However, given the fact that nearly 3,000 people died on September 11, 2001, can you blame the U.S. for overreacting?

Besides, just because the attacks were committed using planes flying domestic routes doesn't mean that people are so stupid that they would never possibly think to use international flights as a means to carry out their deeds. (Forgive me if I didn't follow your line of thought.)

 

[tangobob]

Otherwise, a "terrorist" could board a U.S. plane in transit, and maybe, just maybe, kill everyone with a box cutter and fly the plane into another iconic building.

A valid point that I had not thought of, but I must say first that we in the UK have always had the strictest security of any of the worlds airports and the terrorists in that case were on domestic flights, where at the time there was (I understand, correct me if I am wrong) at the time no security checks.

Besides, just because the attacks were committed using planes flying domestic routes doesn't mean that people are so stupid that they would never possibly think to use international flights as a means to carry out their deeds. (Forgive me if I didn't follow your line of thought.)

And here we have my point,they continued to allow domestic flights, although now with some security, but stopped the international flights where all the passengers had passed through airport security.

We are wandering off topic here, and giving it a little thought, it is perhaps, that lack of security that is the hub of the problem. (bear with me here I am trying to get back to the topic). Unlike we British the US use planes rather like we use busses, so I can sort of, understand how international passengers, once in the US are treated as if they are entering the country. We are afterall now using your internal transport system.
In Europe however the vast majority of plane journeys cross international borders, and as such when we change planes we are unaccustomed to having to leave flightside.
Does all that make sense?

 

[citygirl]

Tangobob - I think the Israelis would probably lay claim to having the strictest security in airports

There have always been security checkpoints but pre 9-11, there were less stringent rules and at that time, I *believe* passengers in transit that were non-US citizens did not have to clear immigrations.

Again, I have no question regarding travelers having to clear customs if they are landing in the US and boarding a domestic flight. But I'm still not understanding why travelers must clear US customs if they are not leaving the airport or entering the US. At the very least, if they have to clear some type of screening process, it seems onerous to require transit passengers to pay a $130 visa fee if they are not actually intending to spend any time in the US.