So, for someone considering moving to Bs As (primarily to study spanish for six months or more and take a break from work) would you recommend they reconsider? Have also considered Mexico City, but then everyone says go to Bs As. Thoughts?
Change in expat attitudes?
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John.St
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I strongly disagree. An A+ person loves to solve problems, the more difficult, the better. Argentina is a great place to get the rush of 'I won! they can't keep me down' feeling - lots of wonderful problems.earlyretirement said:
steveinbsas
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jmartin said:
I think six months in BA is perfect for what you desire.
I lived in Sayulita, Mexico for five years prior to coming to BA for a two month visit. I ended up living in Ciudad Buenos Aires for over four years (prior to moving to the Costa Atlantica nine months ago).
The only times I was in DF Mexico was making a connection at the airport. I was warned by my Mexican friends that Mexico City was not a very good place for a Gringo to live.
Many thanks to the several posters who replied to my question about moving to BA.
Despite being a little spooked by this thread, we are still planning to come in Oct-Nov timeframe for 2-3 months to check the place out and see what we think. We would not be running or dependent on a business, so perhaps it will be easier for us than others here.
I'll go check out the crime thread linked in an earlier post. If there are any other must-read threads for a newcomer considering moving to BA, pointers would be much appreciated.
Thanks again everyone,
xPat
p.s. Dog shit on the sidewalks? Seriously? That's such an easy problem to solve with fines. But somehow I'm guessing such a solution just doesn't jibe with the culture there.
Despite being a little spooked by this thread, we are still planning to come in Oct-Nov timeframe for 2-3 months to check the place out and see what we think. We would not be running or dependent on a business, so perhaps it will be easier for us than others here.
I'll go check out the crime thread linked in an earlier post. If there are any other must-read threads for a newcomer considering moving to BA, pointers would be much appreciated.
Thanks again everyone,
xPat
p.s. Dog shit on the sidewalks? Seriously? That's such an easy problem to solve with fines. But somehow I'm guessing such a solution just doesn't jibe with the culture there.
I agree with most of these things on this thread regards the city. It only makes sense if you are expecting trouble; perhaps on the run from tax inspectors.
Perceptions are everything. I heard a lot of negative stuff about here. A massive amount. I was told I would definitely be held up at gunpoint for my bicycle, have everything stolen, get run over.
For example, I'm trying to cross a very big road, I get halfway and the pedestrian light turns to red. I keep walking because my northern hemisphere mind thinks it has right of way. I nearly get to the other side and a car is literally driving at me at top speed. They trying to kill me! I have to dive out of the way while they honk their horn. I'm enraged and take a swing with a boot before I relise it's too late to smash a light or something.
My reactions are understandable. A horn honk is a anchor in my mind to aggression; the only time I hear it at home is in very aggressive situations, not as a simply as a warning. Then bear in mind that the average person runs red lights to avoid getting mugged during the economic crashes. Then combine that with the difference in economics of cars - even more of a status symbol with the higher price brings with it a sense of entitlement - that cars are more important than people.
With all this kind of thing going on but in such a subtle way? Not as easy to fit in as an expat here as first appears.
Regards money. It seems the same prices here are basically the same as nicer places. That is fundamental and for me I'd never be here out of choice because of that -it's a city, which I view as a big money sink the world over. If here to enjoy, that is a thing of the past. If here to survive, that's different
“I know there are many other places in the world where things run better and more efficiently and life is not a constant fight, but we can’t do that here…because we’re Argentine”
Is this key? So true! This sums it up. Collective ego. So many times I've come across this. This is the hardest. It's like there's all lack of hope. The thing is, it's not just big political change, it's even the little the everyday things. We expats bring in new ways of thinking. When the locals see us doing things that to them seem strange they are sometimes intrigued, but very often `We can't do that, we're Argentine` - an unwillingness to change in any way. Is it a lack of hope? Is it a distrust of change?
I propose not tipping - no way! I propose selling something new here - it will never work! I do this, that, anything new `It will never work`!
For example, many on here say they have achieved residency, bank accounts, citizenship. Mention plans like this to a local and they will say `forget it`, or even `you can't do that!` or even `ah, you want to cheat!`
The possibility that something may be simply good and free just isn't on the radar - not to be trusted.
A healthy distrust is one thing but this goes too far, stifling more than the reality. Yes things are not so easy but retain hope. Banks don't work? -find a way round it. Employees are rubbish? -find a way round it. Always got to believe there's an answer.
And I believe that creates opportunities for the outsider that we are uniquely placed to benefit from.
Is this the key to the Argentine conundrum?
Now I wonder how things apply to outside Buenos Aires...?
Perceptions are everything. I heard a lot of negative stuff about here. A massive amount. I was told I would definitely be held up at gunpoint for my bicycle, have everything stolen, get run over.
For example, I'm trying to cross a very big road, I get halfway and the pedestrian light turns to red. I keep walking because my northern hemisphere mind thinks it has right of way. I nearly get to the other side and a car is literally driving at me at top speed. They trying to kill me! I have to dive out of the way while they honk their horn. I'm enraged and take a swing with a boot before I relise it's too late to smash a light or something.
My reactions are understandable. A horn honk is a anchor in my mind to aggression; the only time I hear it at home is in very aggressive situations, not as a simply as a warning. Then bear in mind that the average person runs red lights to avoid getting mugged during the economic crashes. Then combine that with the difference in economics of cars - even more of a status symbol with the higher price brings with it a sense of entitlement - that cars are more important than people.
With all this kind of thing going on but in such a subtle way? Not as easy to fit in as an expat here as first appears.
Regards money. It seems the same prices here are basically the same as nicer places. That is fundamental and for me I'd never be here out of choice because of that -it's a city, which I view as a big money sink the world over. If here to enjoy, that is a thing of the past. If here to survive, that's different
“I know there are many other places in the world where things run better and more efficiently and life is not a constant fight, but we can’t do that here…because we’re Argentine”
Is this key? So true! This sums it up. Collective ego. So many times I've come across this. This is the hardest. It's like there's all lack of hope. The thing is, it's not just big political change, it's even the little the everyday things. We expats bring in new ways of thinking. When the locals see us doing things that to them seem strange they are sometimes intrigued, but very often `We can't do that, we're Argentine` - an unwillingness to change in any way. Is it a lack of hope? Is it a distrust of change?
I propose not tipping - no way! I propose selling something new here - it will never work! I do this, that, anything new `It will never work`!
For example, many on here say they have achieved residency, bank accounts, citizenship. Mention plans like this to a local and they will say `forget it`, or even `you can't do that!` or even `ah, you want to cheat!`
The possibility that something may be simply good and free just isn't on the radar - not to be trusted.
A healthy distrust is one thing but this goes too far, stifling more than the reality. Yes things are not so easy but retain hope. Banks don't work? -find a way round it. Employees are rubbish? -find a way round it. Always got to believe there's an answer.
And I believe that creates opportunities for the outsider that we are uniquely placed to benefit from.
Is this the key to the Argentine conundrum?
Now I wonder how things apply to outside Buenos Aires...?
steveinbsas
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xPat said:
That's dog shit on broken sidewalks. Unfortunately, it's a crappy filler.
gouchobob
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You will hear all kinds of opinions here, what you have to remember is that people come here for a variety reasons, depending on why you are coming will determine whether you are happy or not. The city isn't a one size fits all kind of place.
It's great city if you are young and single, great nightlife, clubs, bars, etc. If you are looking for something a bit more mature like working or starting a business, raising kids, it can be a difficult environment. For retirees because of inflation it can be very difficult, as your purchasing power from your generally fixed income will be declining significantly over time assuming inflation is going to continue.
Some of the people here who are young and are really here generally for just months the problems aren't probably that apparent. When you are here for real, owning property, paying taxes, running a business, then all the shortcomings become very apparent. Paying bills, doing banking, going to the post office, getting your sink fixed, doing any daily task becomes very time consuming and at times frustrating events. If you are running a business you can multiply these frustrations several times over. I take my hat off to anybody who has successfully operated a business in Argentina.
I agree coming for a few months and checking it out would be the way to go. However when you do make sure you check it out from the perspective of how you actually plan to live. Seek out people who are doing what you plan on doing and see how they find it. You have to remember visiting a place and living there are two different things entirely.
It's great city if you are young and single, great nightlife, clubs, bars, etc. If you are looking for something a bit more mature like working or starting a business, raising kids, it can be a difficult environment. For retirees because of inflation it can be very difficult, as your purchasing power from your generally fixed income will be declining significantly over time assuming inflation is going to continue.
Some of the people here who are young and are really here generally for just months the problems aren't probably that apparent. When you are here for real, owning property, paying taxes, running a business, then all the shortcomings become very apparent. Paying bills, doing banking, going to the post office, getting your sink fixed, doing any daily task becomes very time consuming and at times frustrating events. If you are running a business you can multiply these frustrations several times over. I take my hat off to anybody who has successfully operated a business in Argentina.
I agree coming for a few months and checking it out would be the way to go. However when you do make sure you check it out from the perspective of how you actually plan to live. Seek out people who are doing what you plan on doing and see how they find it. You have to remember visiting a place and living there are two different things entirely.
starlucia
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Honestly, whether you're happy here depends on your own preferences, priorities, and ability to adapt. For some, the emphasis on family and leisure time outweighs the crime and corruption. For others, it's just not worth living without the conveniences and efficiency of their home country. I've been here long enough to know that while I love many things about BA, it's not where I want to settle down permanently. My Argentine partner and I are bidding it a fond farewell at the end of 2011 - it's been fun, but practically speaking, it doesn't offer the opportunities or lifestyle we want and need for our future. In Europe, we can both develop our careers, preserve our savings, travel, eat better, think seriously about kids, be close to extended family, and probably maintain lower stress levels. That's the right decision for us, but everyone has his or her own priorities.
I think that if you're planning to live in BA forever, 3 months is the minimum for a trial run. 3 months is still practically the honeymoon phase (especially if you're renting a short-term place in Palermo, and do not get to experience such joys as waiting days for the Cablevision man to show up.) I think 6 months to a year would give you a more accurate picture of daily local life, and whether you would like to extend your stay permanently.
I think that if you're planning to live in BA forever, 3 months is the minimum for a trial run. 3 months is still practically the honeymoon phase (especially if you're renting a short-term place in Palermo, and do not get to experience such joys as waiting days for the Cablevision man to show up.) I think 6 months to a year would give you a more accurate picture of daily local life, and whether you would like to extend your stay permanently.
Postmodernchild
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jmartin said:
You will be fine here rather than in Mexico city. The only issue would be that prices are higher. You will have more of an immersion experience with the language with less folks really being fluent in English here.
you will love it for six months! If you were going to the DF you would have to take the same precautions than here so no worries!
M
