Change in expat attitudes?

[Johnny]

Hi Johnny,

Happy to compare notes. Feel free to e-mail me, hongkongcaller at gmail.

Briefly, we absolutely love everything about Hong Kong except the real estate prices. We live in a 1,400 sf highrise apartment. It has 3 bedrooms in theory, but is equivalent to a 2br apartment in the USA because there are no closets in HK so westerners always end up using their smallest bedroom (and they are small) as a walk in closet. The rent is US$6k per month! We have a friend who lives in a proper house, but not a huge one. I would guess 2000 to maybe 2200 sf max. It's in a very nice neighborhood and has an ocean view. His rent is US$20k/month. No, that's not a typo. A quarter million U.S. dollars a year to rent a decent house here! That would get you a mansion on 20 acres with horse stables most places in the world!

Everything else is great, and reasonably cheap. But one caveat is that the locals almost never make friends with Gweilos (what you call Gringos there). There is no real animosity or anger toward us, but we are and will always be outsiders. Your social network here are other expats, and there are plenty. More white guys like me live in Hong Kong than in San Francisco. The other 6 million people here (locals) are respectful and courteous, but generally don't want to be friends.

xPat

Ouch ! I knew it was expensive, but that is certainly through the roof ! Maybe I'll track back and think again !

 

[Will]

This is quite true. You can survive in BA if you are EXTREMELY cautious, mainly if you have a good support system -- an Argentine spouse with her/his own family/friends network to guide and help. Otherwise you are very likely in for trouble. The Argentine film, 9 Reinas, captures the sense of insecurity in the atmosphere of BA -- no matter when or where, even in the nicest place in on a cheerful sunny day, there is danger lurking, cheaters and swindler (often from the professional class, well dressed and nice looking). You are never secure. Now for those expats who want to jump all over me for saying this, I am paraphrasing what the Argentine director said in an interview!

And this includes Anglo-Argentines who speak English like native speakers... They can be as ruthless and cunning as a thug from a villa.

 

[allcraz]

Well, I"m not sure if you were directing your post at me....

Where else in the world do you hear of a building having their gas go out for 3 months without getting fixed?? Here it happens in many buildings including where my mother in law lives....

My post was not directed at anyone in particular.

Yes, we had the 3-month gas shortage as well 18 or so months ago.

 

[joelie]

I met a journalist here recently who gave me some statistics on perceived insecurity and actual rates of crime/insecurity. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact statistics however he freely admitted that journalists are a cause of a lot of the insecurity because that is what they focus on with their reporting. But he said that rates of insecurity/crime was a great deal lower than what the general public perceived it to be.

I don't have a television so don't see a lot of the regular news, except when visiting friends, but I am always shocked at just how much violent stuff they show (and then repeat it a few times all in the one report). With such reinforcement of all the crime and violence 'out there' it's not surprising that people feel so insecure.

Having said that, I lived in a country in Africa for five years and I have seen first hand almost more criminal acts here in six months, than I did there in five years. (And people imagine all African countries are 'dangerous'). Where I was, pickpockets and petty thieves are often lynched (i.e. beaten up, stoned, burned) on the spot if caught so are really careful not to be caught (i.e. there is very little threat of violent robbery, and most of the petty theft is pickpocketing, or stealing your hubcaps which doesn't harm you), compared to here where thieves can stick a knife at you on the street, or snatch jewellery off your neck in broad daylight. Guns and drugs are a lot more accessible here, which might explain some of the source, I suppose.

 

[cheshire_cat]

It has to do with the natural process of adjustment. When you first arrive here, you see Argentina through pink spectacles and tend to idealise it. After some time, this distorted image starts to fade out and you begin seeing things more clearly. Argentina is not a paradise, but you can still see its hidden beauty.
Once you've got to know the country and its people, you either come to terms with the situation or leave.
This is my humble opinion.
All the best,
Mia.

 

[Brucemj]

So many people post about crime in BA. However, there is significant crime in ALL big cities-especially late at night. Try walking around many areas of SF late at night--not to mention larger cities like LA, etc!! I feel safer walking around BA at night than in most large cities in the US.

Anywhere there is a high population density there will almost always be significant crime and the number of people with guns in the BA pails in comparison to the US.

Bruce

 

[French jurist]

Get rid of your TVs and you'll feel much safer.

 

[Johnno]

I love the TV comment Its true though - it reminds me of the coverage ANY murder or violent crime gets back in Perth where I come from - you get it again and again and again - and with such emphasis - call me crazy (many would ) but the way I see it you face the same sort of risks no matter WHERE you live - dear old ''quiet Perth'' - THE most ''quiet and peaceful'' city in Australia has places I would not DREAM of walking in late at night - the night club district (called Northbridge) is now safe only for Asian gang members and Somali gang members and Arab gang members - if you are SMART you stay well away and NEVER venture there at night - although I am guessing it might still be okay during the day...

 

[malthus101]

I checked out the UK again before moving here. It was obvious. Sterile me-too global food brands pre-packaged with an endless shelf life. Three hour wait at Hertz to get a pre-booked car at Heathrow... Traffic gridlock. CCT over the entire country. Hassled by the police for reading a map while driving on Marylebone High Street. I'm sure there were great things somewhere, hidden behind the glazed eyes and sad weary faces.

Damn straight! The UK sucks balls!

 

[malthus101]

I wonder what the whining you refer to is all about. I also wonder if it's all whining.

Was Davidglenn whining when he told us the story about having his business shut down (illegally) just before Xmas or was he relating his experience so that others might think twice before starting a business here?

Was I whining when I told the story of the airport vet extorting $100 USD to "allow" me to bring my dog into the country or just relating my experience so others would know how to avoid what happened to me? (Same goes for all who had to pay bribes at customs to get their household goods into Argentina "duty free" while living here as temporary residents.)

Was anyone who ever related stories of being robbed, ripped off by a dishonest landlord, or dating an Argentine whining or just trying to help others who might fall victim to these predators?

The longer you live here the more you know about the good, the bad, and the ugly aspects of BA and the more you have to share with as well as warn fellow and wannabe expats about.

I do agree that BA is vastly preferable to London. I spent a total of four years in BA and only a week in London. It took four years for BA to lose it's charm (for me), even though it is still full of beautiful women who are beautifully dressed and have lovely accents when they speak English...

Steve - tell me about the women please! This is a major draw for me to come to BA in November! London sucks far too much now... overun by drunken assholes and a total rip off in supermarkets and landlords... and no joy at street level... "Tell me about the rabbits" Steve!