Change in expat attitudes?

[tomdesigns]

Buen viaje.

What I don't understand is why so many in this forum thinks that Argentina = BsAs - are you wearing eye-flaps, blinders, like a horse?

BsAs is like one country, the provinces a quite different one.

Go to e.g. Córdoba, Salta (although a very small town), Mendoza, Rosario, Paraná/Santa Fé, etc. and you find another, very friendly country
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Very true.. I live in Corrientes Capital.. small city and a bit difficult at times, but the life for me is much better then living in the west. Sure there are things I do not like and I have to pay attention to what I am doing to stay secure. But when I lived in LA I had to pay attention to what and where etc also.

There are things I love here.. the police are not over bearing ego maniacs! Argentina is not spreading war all over the planet for its political and corporate objectives. I can get on a plane without someone molesting me sexually and the list goes on and on.

My relationships are better and there is always something to do with friends.. Asado, pubs lets just share a mate by the river. Yeah there is inflation but we can all live on a little less anyway if we need to.

And if you want to complain about politics look no further than the west.. what a bunch of morons, completely back wards fools sold out to coporations and Wall Street all of which they have made legal for themselves and the corporations. This list goes on and on too..

I have to admit that for an american it has been a bit refreshing not to have to think about a war anymore. First Russia and now the terrorists all my freaking life, war war war, fear war, the war is coming, we are in a war all the freaking time in the USA WAR WAR WAR!

Just how corrupt is Washington? After Russia and the cold war on communism what did they do next? Gave the Corporations a green light to sell our jobs and manufacturing to Communist China!

 

[sergio]

Just how corrupt is Washington? After Russia and the cold war on communism what did they do next? Gave the Corporations a green light to sell our jobs and manufacturing to Communist China!

Yes, very true.
Regarding the rest: Yes, Argentina is not waging any wars, just a war against letting its people progress by having a transparent government, focusing on education and job training, better public health care, improved old age pensions and using tax revenues in general to benefit people in the long term - and not to buy them off in the short term with dead end subsidies.

 

[Davidglen77]

I agree with the part about the United States government selling the American people out. I don't blame the current president, who I actually think is doing the best he can with a very very very broken country. Nobody is a miracle worker. The majority of manufacturing (middle class bread and butter) jobs started leaving the USA in the 1970s and acclerated in the 1980s and in the 1990s manufacturing was a memory. So what was left? Technology, call centers and the like, now all that is going or gone already to overseas. Even the bank I worked at for so many years outsourced mortgage processing, legal, electronic file storage and programming among other back office functions, to the far east. Do you think America can survive with this bloodletting going on? I don't think so and now the results are clear. Anyway there are a lot of things to improve here, but for all the complaining about the unions at least they are keeping the peoples jobs in the country. Can't say the same for the USA.

 

[tomdesigns]

Regarding the rest: Yes, Argentina is not waging any wars, just a war against letting its people progress by having a transparent government, focusing on education and job training, better public health care, improved old age pensions and using tax revenues in general to benefit people in the long term - and not to buy them off in the short term with dead end subsidies.

I agree, but we are in a developing country and Argentina has been democratic for less than 30 years. In the last 3 years I have witnessed allot of change and progress here in Corrientes.

I really think that allot of the problems are not just political in nature but cultural. From what I can see there are really two classes here.. the haves and the have nots.

The haves send their children to good private schools and their children are generally educated hard workers able and prepared to succeed in life.

The have nots, well they kind of just exist.. but! I have seen people that through public education have worked their way out of the have not mess to become doctors and lawyers etc. Their educations were affordable threw government institutions and they live well.

What I see all to often is the have nots just not interested in doing what they need to do change their lives.

 

[sergio]

Since Peron there have been free universities in Argentina however in the past there was a larger middle class and greater upward mobility. The underclass is growing and they are not being educated. I don't know about Corrientes -- from what I understand it is quite poor - however in Capital Federal we have a lot of kids who are not going to school or if they are the quality of primary/secondary education leaves a lot to be desired. It's hard to enter a university and graduate if you have not had reasonable preparation in high school or even earlier. You're right about a negative attitude about working to get out of poverty but it's in large part due to an attitude on the part of the government that they should stay poor so that they can be bought off with little subsidies. A well educated population is more likely to think and that means questioning -- just what an authoritarian government like the one in power now doesn't want.

 

[tomdesigns]

Since Peron there have been free universities in Argentina however in the past there was a larger middle class and greater upward mobility. The underclass is growing and they are not being educated. I don't know about Corrientes -- from what I understand it is quite poor - however in Capital Federal we have a lot of kids who are not going to school or if they are the quality of primary/secondary education leaves a lot to be desired. It's hard to enter a university and graduate if you have not had reasonable preparation in high school or even earlier. You're right about a negative attitude about working to get out of poverty but it's in large part due to an attitude on the part of the government that they should stay poor so that they can be bought off with little subsidies. A well educated population is more likely to think and that means questioning -- just what an authoritarian government like the one in power now doesn't want.

Correntes is very poor indeed.. and the economy is a mess. Not many jobs but it is getting better. You are correct on all your points but I am not well versed on what the governemnt is doing here. I suspose I should read the news a bit more. I have noticed an increase in government hand outs and such things over the last few months.. hmmm I wonder why that is? Tis the seacon for "Para Todo"

 

[marksoc]

due to an attitude on the part of the government that they should stay poor so that they can be bought off with little subsidies

So you were there in the meeting when they decided to make people poor so they would vote K in 10 years. Was next to the room were Bush planned 9/11? Or in the building were Saddam had tons of WMDs? Next time take a digital recorder with you and put the thing in the Internet.

 

[Amargo]

an attitude on the part of the government that they should stay poor so that they can be bought off with little subsidies

This is a quite widespread myth in Argentina. I doubt it is really on purpose, as it would imply that they have masterminded a plan that actually works. The plans something-para-todos have surely some populist component, but probably they are also intended to work. If they worked, the propaganda effect would be much bigger.
The basic problem is the lack of planing and if something is planed, the consequent follow-up of it. The executive part fails too often. Like that plan to renew the fridges: it was announced with pomposity only to be forgotten after one or two weeks.

I observe this problem also in a smaller scale, among friends, relatives, etc. They plan to quit smoking and with the money they save buy x. They actually do it for one week and then the plan is scrapped.

Lack of continuity. That makes the country so unpredictable.

Not defending the govt. I am a passionate anti-populist (including Ks, peronistas and other abnormalities)

 

[fifs2]

I observe this problem also in a smaller scale, among friends, relatives, etc. They plan to quit smoking and with the money they save buy x. They actually do it for one week and then the plan is scrapped.

Lack of continuity. That makes the country so unpredictable.

Not defending the govt. I am a passionate anti-populist (including Ks, peronistas and other abnormalities)[/quote]


Have to agree with Amargo here..Ive trained project managers in 7 countries and what is common across all is that they all start out with good intentions but without the proper sense of responsibility, empowerment, commitment, flexibility to change, risk mgmt, problem solving, customer servicing etc skills they all singularly fail and blame circumstances..the road to hell is paved with good intentions...and flawed individuals who lament "I tried my best" without realising its the results that matter not the effort! Appolies to politicians, failed dieters, ex-smokers etc...I myself am a failed perfectionist but happier for it.

 

[John.St]

This is a quite widespread myth in Argentina. I doubt it is really on purpose, as it would imply that they have masterminded a plan that actually works.

You don't need a conspiracy or plan to make this happen.

If a sufficient number of individuals see something to their personal advantage, the result is identical to what would come from a conspiracy or plan.

Edit: A couple of examples:
If a large number of people are hoarding one peso coins, the result will be a lack of coins, even though 140 million 1-peso coins were issued in 2009.
If a large number of people buy gold to guard their fortune, the price of gold will increase.
/Edit