Consitutional approach to naturalisation / citizenship?

[Shpongle]

Hi all, am newbie here...

I noticed some talk on this forum of a "constitutional" approach to gaining citizenship. Apparently you have to enter and stay in Argentina for something like 2+ years and talk to your lawyer (I believe there is one lawyer in particular who specialises in this) who will then deal with the courts etc. Until then I think (?) you're stuck in a kind of legal limbo with regard to your immigration status.

Seems like a way to shortcut the usual naturalisation e.g. by marriage, by employment, investment etc. I heard it doesn't always succeed though!

Has anyone gone this route (or personally know someone who has) and if so, what were your experiences like?
Could one get a DNI during this 2 year waiting period or would one be stuck relying on foreign funds for upkeep?
Could one buy land & vehicle during this 2 year period?

 

[arvest]

I am in the middle of this process now, I came on a tourist visa and overstayed. No DNI, my court case is still in progress. Seems like the kind of thing that'll take some time, it doesn't happen overnight

 

[steveinbsas]

I noticed some talk on this forum of a "constitutional" approach to gaining citizenship. Apparently you have to enter and stay in Argentina for something like 2+ years and talk to your lawyer (I believe there is one lawyer in particular who specialises in this) who will then deal with the courts etc.

The lawyer you are mentioning has posted that a minimum of seven months of the year is enough to satisfy the physical presence requirement for the two years of "residency" in Argentina.

Until then I think (?) you're stuck in a kind of legal limbo with regard to your immigration status.

The same lawyer has posted recently that your "immigration status" has nothing to do with citizenship and you can come and go as you please please during the two year period as long as you are physically present in the country seven months of each of the two years.

Seems like a way to shortcut the usual naturalisation e.g. by marriage, by employment, investment etc.

Marriage to an Argentine citizen would be a much shorter route time wise as the two year requirement does not apply.

Having temporary rsidency based on work or investement would result in having a DNI and also make it possible to apply for citizenship without a lawyer, and the process would undoubtedly be smother and faster with the temporary residency and the DNI...as well as significantly cheaper.

I heard it doesn't always succeed though!

I do not have access to the statistics required to provide an answer.

Could one get a DNI during this 2 year waiting period or would one be stuck relying on foreign funds for upkeep?

You could get a DNI with temporary residency based on income earned from work in Argentina (LEGAL EMPLOYMENT EN BLANCO).

You could also get a DNI based on temporary residency based on passive foreign income from investments, rents, a trust fund, or a pension that is guaranted for life."

You could also apply for a student visa, just to get a DNI.

If you figure out a way to make "an honest means of living" in Argentina (something you will have to demonstrate to the court) during the two year waiting perod you would not be "dependent on foreign funds for upkeep" but t's worth noting that, according to the lawyer you mentioned in your post, foreign income is acceptable to the courts.

Could one buy land & vehicle during this 2 year period?

Yes!

 

[Shpongle]

You could get a DNI with temporary residency based on income earned from work in Argentina (LEGAL EMPLOYMENT EN BLANCO).
You could also get a DNI based on temporary residency based on passive foreign income from investments, rents, a trust fund, or a pension that is guaranted for life."
You could also apply for a student visa, just to get a DNI.

If you figure out a way to make "an honest means of living" in Argentina (something you will have to demonstrate to the court) during the two year waiting perod you would not be "dependent on foreign funds for upkeep" but t's worth noting that, according to the lawyer you mentioned in your post, foreign income is acceptable to the courts.


Yes!

Thank you, @steveinbsas. I wondered... assuming you know about such things...

1. Would I be able to study for free in Argentina if I were already "in-country" as it were on the irregular citizenship path we discussed... e.g. agriculture-related distance-learning course? this obviously helping to get DNI.
2. Would I otherwise be able to get a DNI if my passive foreign income were below $1000 per month? (I think maybe not, from what I've read)

I want to buy and develop a small piece of land to be agriculturally productive. This can take several years, generally more than 2 years, usually 3-5 minimum using permaculture techniques.

If money issues become pressing, I can always resort to remote technology work. But I don't much want to be drawn back into that soulless world... hence this unconventional route to immigration, where I can presumably just come in, buy vehicle & land, settle down, and get started. If I had more money I could go with the conventional business investment route that you mention.

 

[steveinbsas]

Thank you, @steveinbsas. I wondered... assuming you know about such things...

You are most welcome.

1. Would I be able to study for free in Argentina if I were already "in-country" as it were on the irregular citizenship path we discussed... e.g. agriculture-related distance-learning course? this obviously helping to get DNI.

I have no idea if it would be free or you would have to pay tuition.

2. Would I otherwise be able to get a DNI if my passive foreign income were below $1000 per month? (I think maybe not, from what I've read)

Even if the migraciones website still indicates the monthly income requirement is $30.000 (pesos), I seriously doubt it. Two lawyers I knw of have indicated that migraciones wants to see a monthly income of $2,000(USD) for the visa rentista,

I want to buy and develop a small piece of land to be agriculturally productive.

Please define small.

This can take several years, generally more than 2 years, usually 3-5 minimum using permaculture techniques.

There's no better time to start than ASAP.

If money issues become pressing, I can always resort to remote technology work. But I don't much want to be drawn back into that soulless world... hence this unconventional route to immigration, where I can presumably just come in, buy vehicle & land, settle down, and get started.

Hopefully, you will have access to your money and the freedom to execute your plan when you are ready

If I had more money I could go with the conventional business investment route that you mention.

I mentioned it, but in your case I don't think it's practical, as buying land to develop would not, in the eyes of migraciones, constitute an investment which would result in an investor visa being granted..

 

[Shpongle]

Even if the migraciones website still indicates the monthly income requirement is $30.000 (pesos), I seriously doubt it. Two lawyers I knw of have indicated that migraciones wants to see a monthly income of $2,000(USD) for the visa rentista,

Such a shame; I could imagine there being many people who could live on far less outside B.A. and still contribute to local economies.

Please define small.

4 hectares if I'm lucky and if it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. More if I can make some gran amigos with las familias out in el campo.

There's no better time to start than ASAP.

Quite so, my friend. Time waits for no man and physical labour doesn't get any easier beyond a certain point.

Hopefully, you will have access to your money and the freedom to execute your plan when you are ready

Indeed. Former experience on this continent (in more backward places than Argentina) suggests it should be doable there.

 

[Shpongle]

Will be good to hear of anyone else's experiences on this path...

 

[steveinbsas]

Will be good to hear of anyone else's experiences on this path...

I suggest you read these threads:

Buying a rural property in Argentina is HARD

Country Life In Argentina: What's It Really Like?

So I've Decided To Sell My House But Where Will I Go?

Here's A Little Story...​

Robbed In Epuyen, Theives Caught Then Released, Even Though​

 

[julia_en_ruta]

1. Would I be able to study for free in Argentina if I were already "in-country" as it were on the irregular citizenship path we discussed... e.g. agriculture-related distance-learning course? this obviously helping to get DNI.

For what it's worth, public universities are free for anyone, regardless of immigration status, but if the program is private it will have a cost. If you were hoping to get a DNI with it, though, my understanding is that if it's a distance-learning course it won't work for a student visa because you could take the distance course from your home country.

 

[steveinbsas]

1. Would I be able to study for free in Argentina if I were already "in-country" as it were on the irregular citizenship path we discussed... e.g. agriculture-related distance-learning course? this obviously helping to get DNI.

I am sure that if, as you indicated in your question, that you "were already "in country" and applied for and received temporary residency based on being enrolled in a course of study approved by migraciones, that you would get a DNI.

That would make life in Argentina "easier" while you fufilled the two year residency requirment (though no longer as important to have when leaving the country and returnng as it was about a month ago)-

Hopefully, just having the DNI would make it possble for you to apply for citizenship without having to pay a lawyer thousands of dollars to represent you.

PS: One requirement for the student visa is that you must be able to demonstrate that you have "sufficient" funds to support yourself while you are a student, and I don't think income earned remotely while you are a student is acceptable to migraciones.

IMO, $1000 USD per month is probably sufficient. What I am not sure of is whether or not migraciones would want to see that you already have a bank balance of $12,000 USD if and when you apply for the student visa.