Consumer Protection Agency in Buenos Aires

Iznogud

Registered
Have you logged a formal complaint at the RPA (Registro Publico de Administradores)?

She could lose her license if you push the matter far enough and as far as i can see you have already her documented failures as Administrator, the mediation and following non compliance. Enough to stir some.

Afterthoughs...

You are likely not a single isolated case.

You can find out what other buildings she manages at the RPA. Get in touch with them and build a group complaint.

If you go for her main income source, then you might get her attention. Nice hasn't work for you this far. Try nasty.

Iz
 
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jantango

Registered
Have you logged a formal complaint at the RPA (Registro Publico de Administradores)?
That is what the lawyer intends to do next.
She could lose her license if you push the matter far enough and as far as i can see you have already her documented failures as Administrator, the mediation and following non compliance. Enough to stir some.
I filed a complaint with them after she ignored the mediation agreement. I am working towards sanctions and loss of license.
Afterthoughts...

You are likely not a single isolated case.
So true. If any administrator mismanages one consorcio, it is likely the same for all their consorcios. Posting a bill as paid on the liquidation of expenses when it actually was not paid is mismanagement.
You can find out what other buildings she manages at the RPA. Get in touch with them and build a group complaint.
The matricula was up for renewal in July 2020, which she finally renewed in late April 2021.
If you go for her main income source, then you might get her attention. Nice hasn't work for you this far. Try nasty.
The lawyer can't believe what this person has gotten away with for 7 years.
Thanks.

Iz
 

Iznogud

Registered
Posting a bill as paid on the liquidation of expenses when it actually was not paid is mismanagement.
This is incorrect.
It´s a common practice. Difference between Percivido y Devengado. Most Administrators mix both methods of presenting the Expensas.

Some money due but not payed is included because you know in advance you will pay it.
You might not have yet collected the income but you put the bill as cancelled.

Wouldn´t use that argument, it will explode in your face.

Iz
 
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jantango

Registered
I took only a basic accounting course in college, so I don't claim to be an expert in understanding the AdminProp Network that produces our monthly expense liquidations. I am one of very few owners who even take the time to review them. Without the complete record of the invoices and receipts, no one knows whether or not the liquidations reflect actual payments. The administrator has not made our records available for review in three years, which tells me that we should question everything. This is mandatory.

I provided the lawyer with our AySA account statement which lists several months of bills unpaid and accruing interest. I explained that one of those unpaid bills appeared on the Dec 2020 liquidation. I doubt that AySA made a mistake on a bill that continues accruing interest charges. The administrator posted it as paid. The lawyer requested a receipt of payment for the bill in the carta documento. The administrator pays a current bill, but ignores those that have accrued interest for more than a year. That's mismanagement in my book.

Apathy is common in many consorcios when it comes to reviewing expense liquidations and reporting administrators. Administrators know they have the advantage; they don't like being questioned about what they do. Our previous administrator lasted only one year before we removed her by a majority vote. The current one is ten times worse than the last one.
 
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nikad

Registered
I took only a basic accounting course in college, so I don't claim to be an expert in understanding the AdminProp Network that produces our monthly expense liquidations. I am one of very few owners who even take the time to review them. Without the complete record of the invoices and receipts, no one knows whether or not the liquidations reflect actual payments. The administrator has not made our records available for review in three years, which tells me that we should question everything. This is mandatory.

I provided the lawyer with our AySA account statement which lists several months of bills unpaid and accruing interest. I explained that one of those unpaid bills appeared on the Dec 2020 liquidation. I doubt that AySA made a mistake on a bill that continues accruing interest charges. The administrator posted it as paid. The lawyer requested a receipt of payment for the bill in the carta documento. The administrator pays a current bill, but ignores those that have accrued interest for more than a year. That's mismanagement in my book.

Apathy is common in many consorcios when it comes to reviewing expense liquidations and reporting administrators. Administrators know they have the advantage; they don't like being questioned about what they do. Our previous administrator lasted only one year before we removed her by a majority vote. The current one is ten times worse than the last one.
Well, somebody must have signed and Oked whatever statements he presented. In the way I see this, you have two problems: An admin you do not trust and feel is up to something shady, and the need to replace him. Your best bet is to talk to the other owners, even if it is just 2 or 3 of you, shop for a different admin, call a meeting and vote to remove the current one ( doesn't matter how many people go or vote, but certainly it cannot be just you ). Then you continue with your lawyer and try to pursue legal action against the current one, but in no way you should be left with an unmanaged building. Chances are the current admin will simply resign and dump all the papers for the next one to take over. It is usually very difficult to prove an admin's fraud via consumer's defense he will get a small and ridiculous fine ( that is if it ever happens ). If you are serious about this, you need to formally accuse him of fraud and pursue ( criminal law ). It is just easier to replace this admin and move on, he will not give you money back ( never heard about this in my whole life here ).
 

jantango

Registered
Thanks for your input on the situation. It is appreciated. I always learn something.
Well, somebody must have signed and Oked whatever statements he presented.
The administrator has not signed any of the liquidations in three years, as was the case with two previous administrators of our consorcio. Thanks for mentioning it.
In the way I see this, you have two problems: An admin you do not trust and feel is up to something shady, and the need to replace him.
I try to get the owners together to talk, but they refuse either to participate or to talk with me about consorcio matters. I am dealing with a group of uneducated people who aren't interested in how their money is being managed, when it concerns where they live.
Your best bet is to talk to the other owners, even if it is just 2 or 3 of you, shop for a different admin, call a meeting and vote to remove the current one ( doesn't matter how many people go or vote, but certainly it cannot be just you ).
There is total apathy regarding consorcio matters among the owners who live in the building. One who appointed herself to the owners' council for the last ten years has yet to sign the book of signatures of owners. She's been in the building for 21 years.
Then you continue with your lawyer and try to pursue legal action against the current one, but in no way you should be left with an unmanaged building.
I am committed to pursuing whatever action is necessary through the lawyer. I don't consider our building managed for three years.
Chances are the current admin will simply resign and dump all the papers for the next one to take over.
That would be a relief, but I am waiting for other legal action to terminate the administrator from working for any consorcio.
It is usually very difficult to prove an admin's fraud via consumer's defense he will get a small and ridiculous fine ( that is if it ever happens ).
And our administrator commented to that effect about fines during a consorcio meeting. Obviously she knows the fine is nothing from personal experience.
If you are serious about this, you need to formally accuse him of fraud and pursue ( criminal law ).
Refusal to comply with the CD request confirms that there are many things yet to be uncovered in three years. Our hands are tied until the lawyer has access to our consorcio records in the administrator's possession. Fraud will be proven and put her out of business.
It is just easier to replace this admin and move on, he will not give you money back ( never heard about this in my whole life here ).
The course to become an administrator is 3-6 months. Do they have to pass a test to be registered? Their mafia cooperates, and the RPA gives them a slap on the hand for disobeying the law. The lack of sanctions is what keeps the mafia working and committing fraud on any consorcio that looks the other way or doesn't know any better.
 

Iznogud

Registered
Percibido y devengado is SOP for monthly expenses. If you have old bills presented as payed that is another story.

With AySA, it's quite common since if you wmgo to their office and pay cadh in one installment they used to discard the interests. Used to run a tab myself for years.

With the current law, the owners sitting at the Consejo de Administracion are liable and respond with their own personal assets. That's why nowadays people are even afraid to sign the Asambleas.

Don't use the wrong argument, it will backfire and be used to show how little you know and how confused you are. You'll provide all that is needed for an argument ad hominem.

Iz
 

jantango

Registered
With the current law, the owners sitting at the Consejo de Administracion are liable and respond with their own personal assets. That's why nowadays people are even afraid to sign the Asambleas.
Our council has had renters because owners do not want to participate, which is obviously not allowed. But this consorcio has no idea of how normal meetings are held, with one person speaking while others listen; with an elected president and secretary who are owners; and owners who have signed the book of owners after presenting their property title. Even renters sign the minutes of meetings when they attend.
What is described about liability of members of the council is very interesting. I'll do a search to find the current law on this topic. Thanks.
 

jantango

Registered
The administrator did not respond to my carta documento, which didn't surprise me. She hasn't responded to one of my emails over the last three years, so she has a consistent track record. The lawyer suggested filing a claim with the RPA (Registro de Publico Administradores). Unfortunately, I already did so two years ago, and they may not accept a second claim from me against the administrator. Our administrator has likely been reported to the RPA many times in seven years for her bad management, but she knows that she will be allowed to continue the work.
 
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