Consumer Protection Agency in Buenos Aires

nikad

Registered
Then again, to have the aforementioned meeting, you need first 66.66% of the owners signatures.
Jantango already mentioned the absence of a Council so the 2/3 in agreement is a must. THEN and only THEN you can proceed with yous simple majority of those present AND subject by the vote of those absent that have x days to send a vote (following more procedures). Just the simple majority won't put an end to it. There are Musts, before and after.

Iz
Afaik, if owners get together, regardless of the number and call ( formally ) to a meeting, notifying, etc and then vote, unless there are ( formal ) objections, whatever they decide it stands. However, it is always best to have as many people as you can on the same page and with the same interest, because any decision that is not backed by many, will lack legitimacy. 2/3 are not necessary in any case https://ligadelconsorcista.org/sobre_revocacion_del_mandato_administrador we have a building with 80 owners and 70 garage spots owned individually ( not all of them owned by apt owners ). We removed the managers with the votes of around 50 owners in total, no objections. The actual problem I see here is tht it is just Jantango trying to do this, and interested in the matter.
 

jantango

Registered
I've been an owner for 16 of the 19 years I've lived in the building. I attended meetings when I became an owner, but I didn't understand the language enough to know what they were talking about. Typed copies of the minutes helped.. I was on the owner's council (with two renters, by the way) for two years until they signed a letter to have me removed. I've been ostracized ever since. I know that meetings should be governed by Robert's Rules of Order for a good reason -- to maintain order. Never have I heard anyone make a motion, then have it seconded, discussed, and then voted upon in our consorcio meetings. That explains why nothing gets done. No one listens to the person talking because there are always two or three conversations going on at the same time. Those who speak the loudest make all the decisions. The administrators are president and secretary of our meetings. The current administrator has yet to provide minutes of the meetings during her term. The oldest owners are not interested in participating.

Thanks to all those who posted comments. I appreciate them and will update on any progress.
 

nikad

Registered
I've been an owner for 16 of the 19 years I've lived in the building. I attended meetings when I became an owner, but I didn't understand the language enough to know what they were talking about. Typed copies of the minutes helped.. I was on the owner's council (with two renters, by the way) for two years until they signed a letter to have me removed. I've been ostracized ever since. I know that meetings should be governed by Robert's Rules of Order for a good reason -- to maintain order. Never have I heard anyone make a motion, then have it seconded, discussed, and then voted upon in our consorcio meetings. That explains why nothing gets done. No one listens to the person talking because there are always two or three conversations going on at the same time. Those who speak the loudest make all the decisions. The administrators are president and secretary of our meetings. The current administrator has yet to provide minutes of the meetings during her term. The oldest owners are not interested in participating.

Thanks to all those who posted comments. I appreciate them and will update on any progress.
Tenants cannot be council members. The time to discuss things is not during the meetings when you vote. You can start to talk informally to other owners and get them onboard!
 

jantango

Registered
Tenants cannot be council members. The time to discuss things is not during the meetings when you vote. You can start to talk informally to other owners and get them onboard!
I had no idea who were owners and who were tenants because both attended consorcio meetings. I assumed that everyone who attended meetings was an owner. The administration at that time didn't question anyone. We operated without a list of names and phone numbers, so I compiled the first one in 2009, that I keep updated with cellphone numbers and emails. The first Libro de Registro de Propietarios that existed for the consorcio was in 2007. I learned who rents and who owns the units. We have two families who refuse to provide their complete names, telephone numbers, and email addresses.

According to law, the only ones permitted to attend and vote at consorcio meetings are owners who have signed the Libro de Registro de Propietarios. Only five owners are registered in that book. It takes three minutes to accomplish this simple task of presenting the property title and signing the book before the administration, but owners for many years have never done so.

The lawyer called me this afternoon advising that she received my transfer and that she would be sending a draft of the carta documento to the administrator.
 

nikad

Registered
In my experience, the only way things will change, is when owners take control of their property. This is not something the admin will do, because it is not his responsibility. What the admin charges is usually updated yearly based on inflation. If she notified it and nobody answered, it sticks. If you do not agree to the raise, they quit ( I learned that the hard way ) and trust me, a building with no manager to be in charge of insurance, salaries, taxes, maintenance, etc with no owners involved or willing to lift a finger, it will be a much bigger headache. I am not sure what the lawyer is going after. The prostitute incident, unless it is documented, there is not proof. As a matter of fact you have to actually prove that the woman is a sexual worker, that it is clients and not lovers, and it is a big hassle that can even backfire against the whole consorcio. You need to make informed decisions. Building management companies are not fighting or in any rush to take a new client, especially if things are messed up, because they will make the same money with a clean or new consorcio. If you need anything, feel free to post here or PM.
 

jantango

Registered
My observation is that the owners aren't interested in anything outside of their respective apartments.
The administrator is responsible for keeping the Libro de Registro de Propietarios current and available at consorcio meetings.
When our administrator gave herself a raise after 8 months, I sent an email to her with copies to the owners. She never responded. I thought it was allowed only once a year at the asamblea ordinaria. There was no notification, she just charged it months later on the liquidation. Nobody bothers to read or attempt to understand them. The lawyer found many irregularities since she audits consorcio records.

Yes, the consorcio is an ongoing headache for many years. They are apathetic.

Thanks again for your input on our situation.
 

jantango

Registered
The lawyer prepared a draft of the carta documento for my approval. She then printed it on the post office's form (three copies). I went to her apartment, just walking distance from mine, for the CD. The next morning I went to the local post office on Entre Rios. I read in advance the procedure for CDs online. The three copies must be signed in front of the post office employee and pay the fee of $755 ($5 for the form). A tiny label is attached to the copies, which is the number used in the TRACE and TRACK SYSTEM online. There you will find the status of your carta documento in processing stages. It took two attempts for mine to be delivered. An attempted delivery receipt is left for the recipient. This was my first experience sending a carta documento.

Now the administrator has 48 hours to respond and provide the documents requested in digital format by email.
 

jantango

Registered
It's been a week since the administrator received the carta documento according to the online Track and Trace system. She hasn't responded with the requested documents in digital format to my email. That only confirms that she doesn't take her work very seriously. I sent an email to the lawyer, asking her what is the next step in this process.
 

Iznogud

Registered
Sick and tired of the Government acting the same way.
Rant is not against you but you should plan ahead. Have your options and tactics ready to deploy and act, other than wait for the lawyer to come up with the next step and drag the already long story endlessly.

Lawyers make their bread and butter like that.

Know beforehand your next moves. Lead.

Your patience and will are admirable but you should tell the other parties what they should be doing and let them find rhe way to execute.

Just my worthless 2cts.

Back to original injected rant.
As if they haven't had enough time to plan the next move and all the frigging alternatives and variants. None of this is a surprise.

Iz
 

jantango

Registered
My lawyer tried to reach me by phone even before I emailed her yesterday. She is also handling a matter against the same administrator for another consorcio, so she knows the situation. The administrator doesn't follow any of the obligations set out in the law.
 
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