Corruption And Cost Of Living And Expat Destinations

Joe

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Corruption and standard of living discussion: http://www.assignmen...omics-2570.html

On another thread I made the statement:

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]"One of the benefits of corrupt governments is by keeping the population in poverty - it does make for budget destinations for travelers - sad but true..."[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]A member took offense at this gross violation of political correctness and speech that is [/background]considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals.

I think it is common sense that we expats that seek out low cost destinations are in effect benefiting, albeit indirectly, from corruption, especially political corruption. This is what the poster is upset about - he doesn't want to accept that he is personally benefiting from other people's misfortune. It's simply an issue of denial.

We see examples of this across the world. To list a few:

Greece: Politicians hired many more public servants that they could afford to pay for. How many of these hires were brother-in-laws, cousins. LeGarde gave Greek authorities a list of suspected tax cheats and the politicians just sat on it. How much did they get in hush money to do so. One of the end results is that Greece is being turned into a budget destination before our eyes.

Spain: Politicians built splashy new infrastructure all across the country. How many brothers-in-law and cousins ended up being primarly contractors. One of the end results, Spain is being turned into a budget destination before our eyes.

Argentina: In the 90's politicians borrowed more money than the people could afford to pay back. How much of that money ended up in the pockets of friends and family. One of the end results is that Argentina became a budget destination in the early 2000's.

Peru: Has by most accounts reduced corruption (remember Fujimori). Unlike Argentina the local currency has been gaining value against the dollar for years and it is much less of a budget destination than it was 5 years ago.

Singapore is right next to Indonesia and Malaysia. Singapore is generally accepted as a much less corrupt society - it's also definitely NOT a budget destination. We can put on the blinders of political correctness and say this is just a coincidence - but denial will just lead to vicious migraines!
 
i spent 3+ months in Italy, Peru and Argentina last year and Argentina was bu far the poorest value for money of the 3. I don't think many expats are living there for the low cost of living, most expats surely have a better standard of living in their home country but have chosen to live in Argentina for other reasons - to learn spanish or study at the UBA, a life experience, their partner is Argentine etc. I have seen this kind of expat in a lot of other countries but Argentina isn't good enough value for money and has far fewer of these types - atleast from what i have seen.
 
Argentina is a 3rd would country with 1st world prices
 
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]A member took offense at this gross violation of political correctness and speech that is [/background]considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals.

A member desperatedly needs to take the Red Pill.
 
Corruption and standard of living discussion: http://www.assignmen...omics-2570.html



We see examples of this across the world. To list a few:


Argentina: In the 90's politicians borrowed more money than the people could afford to pay back. How much of that money ended up in the pockets of friends and family. One of the end results is that Argentina became a budget destination in the early 2000's.


We can put on the blinders of political correctness and say this is just a coincidence - but denial will just lead to vicious migraines!

Many of us expats came here after the default and devaluation, which made Argentina a budget destination 3:1 , we now MUST search the world for new Budget destinations, Ecuador, Thailand, Greece, etc. Do we care about the issues which caused these Defaults.?. We follow the Fondos Buitres,,,, :D
 
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Many of us expats came here after the default and devaluation, which made Argentina a budget destination 3:1 , we now MUST search the world for new Budget destinations, Ecuador, Thailand, Greece, etc. Do we care about the issues which caused these Defaults.?. We follow the Fondos Buitres,,,, :D


I'd like to say we do care about the issues and try to do our own small part to work against similar forces that force the country back into the same cycles..BUT its like holding back the Nile. We have employed more than 200 people in Megro in our 9.5 years of business, tried to focus our employees on the benefits of long term employment and job security versus constant job hopping for 1k pesos more. We setup business to benefit from Bsas as a budget production location. We're now setup with an office in Spain for the same reasons. I guess we're exploiting the failed policies of the govts. in both countries so I have no issue with what Joe wrote as he's merely stating the financial reality that has made Bsas so popular for expats these last 11 years. We wouldnt have come to Bsas if it hasnt offered a financial opportunity but we came knowing the cost advantage would erode and that the company's value had to be established beyond price when that time came and fortunately it is.
 
Lol. Looking at countries like Carrion. Glad to know that carrion sometimes exacts a price.
 
My first response to this is: way to start a thread off directly attacking another member! That was just... not cool, and completely unnecessary.

Besides that, I think you are correct that those of us who bring first world currency to 3rd world countries are definitely benefiting from the cheapness of suppressed economies. It's just the truth: even when looking inside a single country, the less affluent cities are generally cheaper than the richer cities, even though the currency is the same.

That said, I would say that expat residence in poorer countries is good for the country... I'm having trouble putting this into words so try not to be too harsh on me, but I think the expat community here in BA brings standards and new business that maybe Argentineans themselves hadn't realized they could have. What do you think? Perhaps the influx of great restaurants run by expats from various countries has raised the bar for local restaurants and businesses in general. I think restaurants have gotten much better--- I'm much more open to trying new restaurants nowadays than I used to be. Perhaps it's just a natural evolution, but who knows. I guess this is yet another thread topic... :p

One last point that I wanted to throw in has to do with Argentina being such an expensive place. In this thread and the last I keep reading people say how BA is more expensive than the US, with one person here saying it has first world prices. I just cannot live in the US for what I live on here, period (at least not at the same comfort level that I enjoy here). Perhaps some items can be found for cheaper in the US, but the overall lifestyle is much more expensive in my opinion. It's just about the numbers when it comes down to it, as much as we like to complain about BA it's still cheaper by far to live here than in the US.
 
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I don't think anyone really thinks immigration is a bad thing for a country ( unless of course your a right wing European or US citizen ). I personally don't like the European vulture mentality and I think when people come to a country with the intention to abuse and or disrespect it and bad things happen to them in that country, I think it's simple cause and effect, but other than that, I don't really see a problem with people spending their money in any country they want.

I only wish that all the countries where many of these immigrants come from had the same open door policy as Argentina does. But sadly most of them don't. Most actually treat their immigrants quite badly. So who is the one with the third world mentality ?

My first response to this is: way to start a thread off directly attacking another member! That was just... not cool, and completely unnecessary.

Besides that, I think you are correct that those of us who bring first world currency to 3rd world countries are definitely benefiting from the cheapness of suppressed economies. It's just the truth: even when looking inside a single country, the less affluent cities are generally cheaper than the richer cities, even though the currency is the same.

That said, I would say that expat residence in poorer countries is good for the country... I'm having trouble putting this into words so try not to be too harsh on me, but I think the expat community here in BA brings standards and new business that maybe Argentineans themselves hadn't realized they could have. What do you think? Perhaps the influx of great restaurants run by expats from various countries has raised the bar for local restaurants and businesses in general. I think restaurants have gotten much better--- I'm much more open to trying new restaurants nowadays than I used to be. Perhaps it's just a natural evolution, but who knows. I guess this is yet another thread topic... :p

One last point that I wanted to throw in has to do with Argentina being such an expensive place. In this thread and the last I keep reading people say how BA is more expensive than the US, with one person here saying it has first world prices. I just cannot live in the US for what I live on here, period (at least not at the same comfort level that I enjoy here). Perhaps some items can be found for cheaper in the US, but the overall lifestyle is much more expensive in my opinion. It's just about the numbers when it comes down to it, as much as we like to complain about BA it's still cheaper by far to live here than in the US.
 
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