Crime sensation and real crime! opinion

[nicoenarg]

Well quite true that people once dead is dead but you are forgeting the family and friends of that person that die will still feel the extreme pain that produce a murder, worst than any other crime.
One thing why you thing that sensation of insecurity is related to real insecurity? yes it have a correlation but is more correlated to what the media show than of what happen to the people one know, i read what you write but the countrys where people fear more the insecurity are not nesesarily the ones that are more insecure in the reality, media have a big role on the feeling don't you agree?

I am not forgetting the family and friends and that is why I specifically said that "I am not belittling murder" a comment most readers here seem to ignore.

What I was saying was that PERSONALLY to people, those that go through, say, robberies at gun point remember that more than the people who are murdered. Because the murdered can't remember anything. I'm not being mean or anything, its just a fact.

Let me give you an example. A few soldiers that have seen violence in wars suffer from PTSD. Because they have seen what they've seen and can't handle it well. Whereas the family members of soldiers who have been murdered in war are not likely to suffer from PTSD. Its about the kind of experience people go through. And that is what changes or affects what kind of perceptions people will have.

If its still not clear to you and others what I am saying with this, then I'm clearly not doing a good job at explaining my point and I rest my case.

 

[nicoenarg]

Well quite true that people once dead is dead but you are forgeting the family and friends of that person that die will still feel the extreme pain that produce a murder, worst than any other crime.
One thing why you thing that sensation of insecurity is related to real insecurity? yes it have a correlation but is more correlated to what the media show than of what happen to the people one know, i read what you write but the countrys where people fear more the insecurity are not nesesarily the ones that are more insecure in the reality, media have a big role on the feeling don't you agree?

What I am telling you is what I hear when I talk to people here. Argentines and foreigners alike. I don't get it from the news media. Now I am sure the people I talk to take a lot of what they consider information from the news media. But the people that have been robbed talk from personal experience.

But again, like I have been saying, it all depends on your perception. If you percieve that BsAs is a safe city then you will try to dump any and every story that warns of Buenos Aires being a dangerous city as a lie or media hype. Even personal stories of robberies and violence will, to you, sound like a one off thing...something that must have happened to the victim because of something stupid they did (yeah, I have heard that plenty of times here). Even if you are a victim of crime yourself, you will turn around and justify that. People do that. Its how you percieve things.

Now, if your perception of Buenos Aires is that it is a dangerous city, then you will no doubt listen to people's stories when they tell you they were robbed or whatever. You will also listen to the news media and make your decisions on what kind of city Buenos Aires is based on that.

 

[bomber]

I think I personally would take a random shooting over a targeted robbery any day of the week.

Hmmm.

I've been robbed twice now (not in Argentina funny enough, once in Chile and once in Kenya). And I can tell you from experience, that I much prefer that to have happened to me than to have been killed. My insurance takes care of the majority of pain from my robberies. I'm not sure what type of cover would do the same if I was murdered.

 

[walkingtwig]

everyone knows you only report a crime when you are going to sue someone..

 

[citygirl]

I think nico's point is that your odds of getting randomly shot are probably a lot lower than being a victim of a targeted robbery. Which unfortunately seems not uncommon here. So in the devil's choice, probably better to take your chances of being a victim of random shootings than live in a society where you need to worry seriously about being a targeted victim.

 

[cbonanni]

I was robbed at gunpoint in the states when I was a teenager. Yes , it was traumatic. When it comes down to it , Argentina is not a large country. Crime here is reported in all the news outlets , and perhaps , sensationalized. Chicago has had more murders than the whole of Argentina this year. If every murder in the US received the press that it does here , there would be nothing left to report ! I am not saying crime is not a problem , it is !! Just be careful , aware , and try not to put yourself in a position to be a target. Street smarts , and take care. As they say accidents happen. SO do robberies , as I can attest.Gang violence will not go away. Do not count on the Police. Be safe.

 

[lamarque]

I think nico's point is that your odds of getting randomly shot are probably a lot lower than being a victim of a targeted robbery. Which unfortunately seems not uncommon here. So in the devil's choice, probably better to take your chances of being a victim of random shootings than live in a society where you need to worry seriously about being a targeted victim.

Well i suppose is a point of view and a valid one for sure, but for me if someone steal me the insurance company pay for it and anyway i never carry that much money more than an iphone and enought money to do what i have to do in any case, but if someone kill me then there is nothing else to do and no one to fix the situation the same if someone of your family or friends get killed that is unfixable.

 

[Iznogud]

Haven't read the whole thread, I must say I read halfway through the article and had enough.

What a load of manure!

Didn't have to wonder where the article was headed too long:
"Paradoxically, most Argentines appear to associate the start of the feeling of inseguridad with the events of the last decade, when hyperinflation and poor management brought on by the inept economic policies of previous administrations caused widespread panic and riots. Nonetheless, there is an inverse correlation between economic well-being and the feeling of inseguridad. In other words, the feeling of insecurity has increased along with economic well-being and a reduction in crime, instead of decreasing, as would be expected...."

Whisky Tango Foxtrot????
I'd say that during the last decade, the people at the helm have practiced unexplainable leniency towards the criminal element and have done almost everything in their power to restrain the traditional practice of (already quite ineffective) judicial/penal system. The Law no longer plays a dissuasive role, crime does pay for certain strata of our society.
Crime has in no way decreased. Victims are now to be blamed. Criminals appear to be poor misguided souls.

The article goes on next to blame the media and then you must ask yourself what is going on? Does the media opposing the current governmet manufactures crime? Holy shit!

When I read that one of the sources in the article was CELS data I didn't need to read any further. Bringing Videla into the subject? Most current criminals weren't not even born in the 80's. Gimme an effing break. This is not a journalistic article, this stuff is just another piece of government funded propaganda.

Thank you but no, thanks.

PS: In 2001 people were taking care of each other and that's why there was fear but not chaos or lawlessness. You would be scared for the overall situation but not for your personal safety or that of your loved ones. Now I am scared for my kids going out on the streets or even my personal safety at home. That wasn't part of the problem back in 2001 even when the fan was going at full tilt.
Been there, done that. Had other fears but not the ones we live nowadays. I think back in those days we were all in this together, now we're all alone.

 

[bomber]

Well i suppose is a point of view and a valid one for sure, but for me if someone steal me the insurance company pay for it and anyway i never carry that much money more than an iphone and enought money to do what i have to do in any case, but if someone kill me then there is nothing else to do and no one to fix the situation the same if someone of your family or friends get killed that is unfixable.

Gotta agree with this. I've had two friends die in their early 30s, accidents not murder, however I would much rather take a few more friends being robbed but around to tell the tale than those two friends of mine dead.

 

[trennod]

Yes peoples perceptions are shaped by the media, but I think most peoples perceptions here are shaped by personal experiences & experiences of people close to them.

I have said something like this before, but if I look at my closest 20 people in Argentina and compared them to my 20 closest in my home country and incidents of crime in the last 12 months, it is considerably higher here. That is the major thing that shapes my own personal perception and feeling.

In her past 10 months here, my girlfriend alone has been robbed twice (once by a motochorro in Tucuman and the other by a girl in broad daylight outside a busy restaurant in Palermo Chico) and was the victim of another attempted robbing by a motochorro. Thats 3 incidents in 10 months. And the worst thing is, its not uncommon and it happens with taking all the precautions that Argentines take.

Anyway, this article is trying to argue that its not that bad and that the reason Argentines are scared is due to the media. I dont believe thats what makes me look over my shoulder constantly and similarly dont think it applies in general to the masses.

Any figures on robberies etc could never be reliable here. No one even reports them.