Did Trump save Venezuela?

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sergio said:
It seems that the military are still behind Maduro so change will take more time. The US will no longer pay for petroleum through the Maduro government. Payments will be through the government of Guaido. Just how this will work I don't understand but if petro dollars don't flow to Maduro he will have a very serious problem.
I am curious if jtango supports Maduro. I don't disagree that prior to Chavez Venezuelan governments did not do enough for the poor. When demagogues rise to power it is for a reason. There had to have been discontent among the poor to have put Chavez in power. Chevez, however, could not run the country. Maduro is even worse and now virtually everyone is far far worse off while basic human rights and demoocracy have been undermined.
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There's no question that the poor were in a terrible situation before Chavez, but as you suggest, the solution was worse than the problem. Now, the poor are even poorer, as well as everybody else, except the govt elites and the folks who were already rich. And Venezuela was already in horrible, horrible shape before Trump's sanctions. These so called socialist states always end up in dictatorship and totalitarianism because they cannot support their own people but want to stay in power. How many more examples of this do we need?
 
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Stantucker said:
There's no question that the poor were in a terrible situation before Chavez, but as you suggest, the solution was worse than the problem. Now, the poor are even poorer, as well as everybody else, except the govt elites and the folks who were already rich. And Venezuela was already in horrible, horrible shape before Trump's sanctions. These so called socialist states always end up in dictatorship and totalitarianism because they cannot support their own people but want to stay in power. How many more examples of this do we need?
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I hesitate to call Venezuela socialist. It's just corrupt pretending to be for the people. In Venezuela I don't know that the people who were formerly rich are as rich now. If you aren't tied to the regime you don't prosper. I think a lot of rich Venezuelans left some time ago.
 
sergio said:
I hesitate to call Venezuela socialist. It's just corrupt pretending to be for the people. In Venezuela I don't know that the people who were formerly rich are as rich now. If you aren't tied to the regime you don't prosper. I think a lot of rich Venezuelans left some time ago.
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Exactly, many of those with money left a long time ago and were able to preserve their wealth. So none of these states that failed and called themselves socialists was actually socialist?
 
sergio said:
I hesitate to call Venezuela socialist. It's just corrupt pretending to be for the people. In Venezuela I don't know that the people who were formerly rich are as rich now. If you aren't tied to the regime you don't prosper. I think a lot of rich Venezuelans left some time ago.
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Well All Socialist nations don't hesitate to call Venezuela a Socialist comrade . You may not agree..:rolleyes:
 
Stantucker said:
Exactly, many of those with money left a long time ago and were able to preserve their wealth. So none of these states that failed and called themselves socialists were actually socialists?
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Yeah, the dictionary definition of socialism seems to be a lot different than what happens in reality. The folks who love socialism always claim these messed up countries aren't practicing "real socialism." Okay, so who is then? Sweden? Norway? I'd call that capitalism with social programs.

Anyways, to get back on topic...

Can anyone imagine what Venezuela will look like after 6 more YEARS of Maduro.

Good lord.

Anyone who posts Telesur (state-sponsored news channel of Venezuela) videos praising Maduro might be better served leaving their house and talking to their local Venezuelan. They are all over the place and have a lot to say about Maduro. Very little is positive. They certainly aren't here because they prefer weather and beaches in Buenos Aires to the Caribbean!
 
What will happen to Maduro? Will he end up in exile? If so, which country will he live in?
 
A friend of mine moved six months ago from Venezuela. He says that things are much worse than people realize. He said that in some jails, there has been some cannabalism. I asked him what people do, and if they can plant crops or something like that. He said anything you do gets taken. There are stories of people tearing apart a live cow. People in churches giving out humanitarian aide are getting arrested because that "belongs" to the state. Most people that survive do it off payments sent from abroad. Sounds like things are starting to get desperate. If Trump can do something to alleviate this situation, then he should. Shame on any governments that recognize this dictatorial regime.
 
Stantucker said:
Cristina still has about 30 of the vote here. What does that tell you about that support for Maduro?
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Well I can understand her support. There aren't millions of Argentinians starving to death. I don't understand the support for Maduro but I don't pretend to understand Venezuela. I'll just say that usually when the us starts interfering with Latin America governments it usually doesn't turn out well!
 
Fiscal said:
Well I can understand her support. There aren't millions of Argentinians starving to death. I don't understand the support for Maduro but I don't pretend to understand Venezuela. I'll just say that usually when the us starts interfering with Latin America governments it usually doesn't turn out well!
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Great! Let's just all sit back and see how many hundreds, thousands more Venezuelans die from hunger, lack of medication, crime, etc.
 
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