Did Trump save Venezuela?

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Aha, it has been proven that some of the demos in favor of Maduro were ancient videos(some 4 yrs old). It is funny, in one of them the commentator,
a Minister of Propaganda, is seenmaking comments at the same time he is portrayed(seen) in the mass of people.The video was shown as "live".
It is the first human being that was in two places at the same time!!.Incredible!!
 
We are using the word "intervene" often without defining what kind of intervention we are talking about. I was not necessarily talking about military intervention, even though I would not take that off the table. I read in a newspaper here that if the US stopped buying oil from Venezuela, that would further weak their economy to such a degree that Maduro might have to step down. That is one kind of intervention that might force him out.

Concerning military intervention, when the Serbs were killing the Kosovars, some Chilean friends of mine heavily criticized the US for not intervening militarily. And don't think that these were conservatives. They are not and are very critical of the US in general and of past US military intervention in particular, especially the CIA support for the coup that ousted Pinochet. I know that wasn't a military intervention per se, but it was tremendously helpful to Pinochet. They had relatives that had to flee across the border to Peru and spent the rest of their lives exiled in Canada. These friends were criticizing the US for not intervening militarily because people were dying. I know you are going to say that the situations are different, that other than in street protests and some dissident leaders, the Venezuelan military is not killing people. Maybe so, but how many more people are going to die from starvation, lack of medicine, crime, before something happens? Even though the military is not routinely killing people, Maduro is killing his own pueblo, day by day. I'm not sure I see a real difference between the two situations. The result is the same, people are dying daily. And these folks that think that Maduro will just one day magically negotiate the handing over of power are deluding themselves. He will go only if they grant him and all the military full immunity from prosecution and let him keep all the money he's stolen or made in collusion with the Narcos. Even with that kind of deal, he may still not go.

I don't necessarily want for there to be military intervention, and if it is necessary, I don't want the US to do it, because even if it goes well, we will be criticized. I am not advocating that the US play policeman to the world. And I don't know that that type of intervention is the answer. None of us has a crystal ball and can really know. But I do think the entire World is going to end up with lots of blood on its hands and look back and say, why didn't we do more. Up until now there hasn't even been a fairly united denunciation against Maduro. We not not doing enough.
 
camberiu said:
Had the US the humility to not intervene in World War I and/or the Russian Civil War, very likely there would not have been a World War II.
Click to expand...
Wow! The US is responsible for WWII too. That's a new one.
 
Stantucker said:
Wow! The US is responsible for WWII too. That's a new one.
Click to expand...

Yep. Good chunk of the responsibility. US meddling in World War I and breaking the stalemate gave the Allies the confidence to set up the treaty of Versailles, humiliate Germany, impose unpayable restitutions and set the groundwork for the rise of the Nazi party.
The US sending troops intro Russia to help the Whites fight the Reds is what made Stalin mistrust the West and from there the seeds for the
molotov ribbentrop pact were planted.
All examples of blowback, which is an actual CIA term.
 
camberiu said:
Yep. Good chunk of the responsibility. US meddling in World War I and breaking the stalemate gave the Allies the confidence to set up the treaty of Versailles, humiliate Germany, impose unpayable restitutions and set the groundwork for the rise of the Nazi party.
The US sending troops intro Russia to help the Whites fight the Reds is what made Stalin mistrust the West and from there the seeds for the
molotov ribbentrop pact were planted.
All examples of blowback, which is an actual CIA term.
Click to expand...

This is a quote from the BBC online:
Historians disagree about the causes of World War Two (WW2). Some trace it back to the anger created in Germany by the Treaty of Versailles. (underlining mine)

If there is no agreement that the Treaty of Versaille caused the war, then that undermines the first part of your argument.
 
Stantucker said:
Cristina still has about 30 of the vote here. What does that tell you about that support for Maduro?
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Venezuelans are still socialists at heart and haven't really assumed the responsibility for their miscalculations in the voting process, same goes for Argentines who refuse to admit to their nationalist obsessions and skewed sense of self-determination. Modern-day sovereignty, the way it used to be prior to creation of the internet and e-commerce, is long gone because of globalization but instead of embracing the gift of open market economy and transparent capitalist democracy, Argentines along with the Russians, Bolivians and all the rest who publicly support the dictator Maduro, choose to chew on their old precious populism while blindly believing that they can continue living and depending on the state for just about everything and in this case on the flawed sense of security and stability.

Currently, Maduro cannibalizes on the socialist sentiment of his own people and feeds them the narrative of the big uncle wanting to take over Venezuela, that is why the military is loyal to him, they wholeheartedly believe in the imperative to protect their own nation even when there is clearly nothing left of it. The soldiers there, much like the North Koreans, are soon going to eat plane corn in order to survive, in an environment like this armed uprising cannot be rules out.
 
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