Do you fear a crash similar to 2001?

#61
On a last note, Germans or Europeans might be more inclined to vote for populist or radical parties now, but unlike the Argentines, it´s not something that´s ingrained in their culture or a recurring phenomenon. On the contrary, they tend to vote for moderate candidates. Let´s also not forget that as good as Macri´s intentions might be, he is still a populist, and not just as rhetoric goes, in many ways economically too
Populist? Right! Seems you are really clueless.
The europeans vote moderate candidates like Mussolini or Hitler, right?
FYI the decrees enacted by Macri revived laws and decrees of the III Reich, so, again you are clueless.
Seems that in your laberinth you think Macri is a liberal...ignorancy is a bliss.
 
#62
Due to the large number of delusional individuals lacking any sort of common sense, I will attempt to clear up some things in a brief and concise way, leaving aside ideologies and conspiracy theories very much embraced and loved by argentines.

Although everything seems to be possible in unpredictable Argentina, a 2001 does not loom in the horizon. At least not in the short or medium term. That said, however, history repeats itself In this country, who is hell bent on tripping on the same stone a thousand times.

The root of Argentina´s problems, beyond an evident cultural one which its catalyst, is the not so popular idea among the also delusional and deeply corrupt- like the society it rules over- political class: an unsustainable fiscal deficit. In layman´s terms, just like you cannot spend more than you take in, the same logic applies in a government. Well, you can, but you can only hide the squandering and irresponsible spending for so long. When you face the numbers and decide to confront reality, you can finance that fiscal deficit in two ways: One, by printing money, which leads to inflation, like it happened during the last administration. Second, by borrowing, which is what the current government has been doing ever since it took office.

All this said, the government ended up seeking an unprecedented loan of 50 billion dollars (25% of the IMFs budget) Now, will this be sufficient to stay afloat for a while- even if the IMF has only released 15 billions for now? Probably. Now, what´s the issue, then? What do you do after you've been overspending at home and can´t keep up with the unsustainable lifestyle anymore when the bills start showing up? You panic (or you should) and begin cutting down on expenditures in order to avoid an even deeper deterioration of your situation.

See where this is going?

The government has a MASSIVE (in caps) fiscal hole it inherited that somehow needs be drastically reduced. Yes, going to the IMF is ugly, but you- Argentina- wouldn´t have had to resort to that had you not gotten in debt because of capricious spending for years. The IMF, in fact, has every right to impose the conditions to you when YOU are the one that got yourself in that mess in the first place. Easy to understand, hard to accept.

Do you think an irresponsible and immature society like that of Argentina will -or can- in any way, shape or form, understand this situation enough and accept the need for structural adjustment, which obviously means less purchasing power and tightening of their daily budget?


Food for thought
Ok, I wasted some minutes reading you and I have to say I have never read something so simplistic, stupid and racist.

In my opinion, the problem in this country is that for the last 70’ years we were debating different greys of totalitarism / nazism / absolutism.

Macri for example is reviving the economy of the colony (absolute power) where only those close to the power made high profit busisness destroying the local economy because it is all based on corruption. We call them unitarios. But he has also a strong influence of nazism like the ethnic cleansy of Chinese he wanted to do, and failed.

Argentina is a good example of what happends when you have a mild nazism regime with peace.

The only immature I see around is you.

The problem you do not see in your ignorancy is that even Peron was overthrown by liberals, they were later defeated in an counter revolution where the totalitarism without Peron won. Google azules y colorados.
 
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#64
There is usually no one large expense that you can cut and it balances your budget. It’s usually a bit everywhere and it hurts everyone and so all oppose cuts. It’s easier to keep spending, printing money and having inflation. Then the poor get poorer and no one really cares except the politicians who claim to help and only end up helping themselves. For comparison purposes, in the USA we are running $600 billion annual deficits and no one cares. And we just passed a massive tax cut that’s being paid for with more debt. The world is crazy except just the Germans who save and the Chinese that are getting very rich thanks to the foolishness of USA trade practices.
The whole deficit are 3 decisions of Macri. He abolished tax to minery. Now they pay zero. He also reduced the tax to soy and he self forgived 4.5 billion usd. Even the IMF asked to go back to the former status quo where there was Fiscal superavit.
 
#65
What you said is interesting. Can you elaborate on your opinion that Germans are terrible managing their personal finances?

Argentines (or any nationality for that matter) also have no clue about economics. We shouldn´t mix up arguing passionately about something and knowing the name of every member of an administration with actually understanding basic principles of economics, which the Argentines have no clue. Back to the Germans, I don´t think they´ve a reputation as being stingy for nothing. That´s noticeable when, contrary to the Argentines, you see how cautious they are with their money when vacationing. The economy has a huge current account surplus as well.

Finally, regarding education, you say they are average as far as their intelligence goes. German technology and engineering is known to be one of the best in the word, and Germans score highly on the PISA test. So what sort of indicators are you basing those claims on?
Nothing like someone defending the arian race...seems that your conclutions are wrong because you start from retrograded premises...
 
#66
In general germans don't look at all in what they spend, neither they worry to much about their savings, they trust to much on the state for providing when they get old, when you talk to them about the posibility of the state failing on this they just cannot make in their head this scenario. Besides they spend in stupid things all the time that they never use again, and very few of them are interested in finances to start with.

In answer to the question about their result in a test, that is mostly because they have a good education system, and as well their system worries a lot about preparing kid for that kind of exams to start, but is not inherent to the average person, actually in average there is few diference between countrys on inteligence, the diference is how aplied and how well economically is the family of the person in question that mark the grade he/she will get at the end of the day, japanese as well do perfectly on this kind of test but that is not because they are inteligent per se, is mostly a mix of been aplied and hard workers, they really put effort on having good marks because their future depend on that (they even have a say for this, perseverance beat everytime inteligence), while in other countrys your future depend more on your connections, your demonstrated experience, or your creativity or your smartness and not on a paper.

Besides im not so sure if you understand their education system, at the very early age of 10 you are already told what group you belong to, there are 3 levels, the gimnasium that is the kids that are going to go to the university later on and the suposed smart kids or kids from good families, the middle level with is called Realschule with are kids that didnt hold enough promise to get into the gimnasium and probably are going to finish studying some vocational thing and not a university degree and lastly the Hauptschule with is where the worst of the worst is sended, this system is great producing really good results on the top students because they don't need to go at the ritmic of the slowest students of the class and mostly kids from goods families are there in where only the ones that have no other worry than their grades are there, but is as well quite controversial that you can be marked for the rest of your life at the age of 10, and mostly kids that are sent to the realschule or haupschule are the ones that become more nationalist, xenofobic and extremist at the end of the day. Even in Germany you see big differences between the region you where born, the education system in the southern richest states is very good, while in the north eastern states the kids performance is really bad in comparison. Maybe the problem here is what you understand when you use the word intelligence, and maybe we are miss understanding each other. I would like to develop a little more the idea but I jus got visits so I let it there.
Interesting points. What you´re saying is that intelligence is determined by nurture, not nature, am I getting it right? If so, I agree. But how do you measure being "smart" if not due to having attained a decent educational level? You say that in other countries factors like "smartness" are more important, but you´re referring to being street smart here or the infamous viveza criolla. Correct me if I´m wrong. Regarding the others, I would say its the other way around. In many places like the USA or Australia, they seem to care more about your experience and creativeness (entrepreneurship) or what you can actually do to make the company earn more money, than if you graduated with a top GPA from a top university. Not that the last doesn´t matter, but I would bet less so than showing you´re capable. As far as your connections, that´s important everywhere, but remember many places don´t have the same level of nepotism like Argentina, and the so called "clientelismo". If people are not genetically born smarter (something I, like you, find ridiculous) you cannot say certain countries rely more on "smartness".
 
#67
To illustrate my point better, consider this. If the average German was to work or act in Argentina the way they do back home, he or she would probably be considered naive or borderline dumb. Now, if we were to reverse it, the average Argentine would be seen as unintelligent in Germany. Who is smarter, then? A society cannot advance relying on being street smart. In fact, it´s a symptom of entrenched corruption. Being academically "smarter" is therefore how we should measure actually being smart.
 
#68
you guys are on fire. great exchange. gotta be selfish right now. the US broke up the unions because the company’s paying 90 dollars an hour could not support the labor strikes and the consumers did not want to pay higher prices. the race was on to produce a product at a cheaper price. thus free trade with asia. it broke the unions hold on labor. they now pay 30 dollars per hour for the same servive and after the last economic cycle they are happy to get it. education through technology has offered a replacement for dead end jobs. because of free trade, most things have good quaility and are affordable. on entitlements, for some one who has paid into the system for the last 40 years, it would be wrong to take that away because of spending in other area’s and that’s honey hole of resources. japan now wants immigrants in country to work and pay taxes to support the aging population due to reduction on child birth. go figure. trump is blind. the good news is he likes macri and argentina has no trade restrictions. mis dios centavos
 

lamarque

Active Member
#69
Interesting points. What you´re saying is that intelligence is determined by nurture, not nature, am I getting it right? If so, I agree. But how do you measure being "smart" if not due to having attained a decent educational level? You say that in other countries factors like "smartness" are more important, but you´re referring to being street smart here or the infamous viveza criolla. Correct me if I´m wrong. Regarding the others, I would say its the other way around. In many places like the USA or Australia, they seem to care more about your experience and creativeness (entrepreneurship) or what you can actually do to make the company earn more money, than if you graduated with a top GPA from a top university. Not that the last doesn´t matter, but I would bet less so than showing you´re capable. As far as your connections, that´s important everywhere, but remember many places don´t have the same level of nepotism like Argentina, and the so called "clientelismo". If people are not genetically born smarter (something I, like you, find ridiculous) you cannot say certain countries rely more on "smartness".
Smartness is not related to having a good mark in a test, is more how quick you are to do so, with is quite dificult to measure, but mostly you can grasp a notion of it when you talk to someone that has this quality. My definition of intelligence would be more like your processing speed and power, while having good marks on test relies more on your memory capacity (this is kind of a computer analogy) and how much time you put into it, eventually even the dumpest person can learn a new trick, unless someone is really really dump most of the people aplying themself can get very good marks with the proper nurture, i remember quite a dumb guy in my class, he had dificulties with everything, but he was really perseverant, he recognized himself as a person that had dificulties understanding new things, but he didnt care about spending every free hour of his time on doing so. Guess what he got one of the best average mark on the whole graduation.
I agree in that success in school and in this kind of test has a lot to do with nurture and enviroment.
 

lamarque

Active Member
#70
To illustrate my point better, consider this. If the average German was to work or act in Argentina the way they do back home, he or she would probably be considered naive or borderline dumb. Now, if we were to reverse it, the average Argentine would be seen as unintelligent in Germany. Who is smarter, then? A society cannot advance relying on being street smart. In fact, it´s a symptom of entrenched corruption. Being academically "smarter" is therefore how we should measure actually being smart.
Not really, is quite easy to go to germany and become successful there as an Argentinean or as anyone actually if you have a proper degree, not much of a trick to perform good in a steady economy, you just go every day to work and you don’t need to do much else, and that is very easy to do when no one else arrives late, is way easier than here, smartness don't have any relation with society development, smartness is an individual attribute and there for I don't understand why you talk about society's, there are a lot of values that are more important for economic development than a smart population, you can have all smart people in a society but if they all disagree on the way to go forward or they are all just competing with each other or sunk in corruption then smart people only make it harder to fix the problem because they will be smarter as well to cheat and to play against you. Hopefully you got what I meant, in any case is an interesting topic, but I think we are probably off topic lol and i'm already sleepy :9