Escribano fees breakdown - is this standard or excessive?

[Flexter]

A question for those with experience buying and selling property in Argentina and what is the standard fee breakdown for escribanos...

I've got a quote from an escribano that breaks down his fees as follows:

Basic fee:
2% Notary Tariff + 21% IVA = 2.42% [the "standard" fee, as I understand]

Extras:
0.075% "Notarial input" [apparently paid to the Notary Institution]
0.2% "Registration of Property Rate"
Other expenses: USD 1300. Listed as "notary protocol", "registration expenses", etc.

I need to query with the escribano exactly what is "notarial input" and "notary protocol" and why it's not included in the standard 2% fee, but does anyone have experience of this? Similarly, "registration of Property Rate" and "registration expenses" - what's the difference?

Can anyone provide insight as to whether this breakdown of escribano fees is standard market level or excessive? Most of what I've read about escribano fees is that a "good" escribano will package it all into one single % fee (rather than separate the extras) and 2% total seems to be industry standard. What are peoples experience with this?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Davidglen77]

The fees that get paid to the state of course are non-negotiable, recording of deed, transfer taxes, etc. However the escribano's professional fees are always somewhere between 1-2% of the purchase / sale price. And since real estate transactions are difficult to do "en negro" these days they will of course add IVA on top of any professional fees and of course will lean towards the high end. The other thing you can do is ask them to charge you 1% in blanco and the rest en negro and that way at least you can save a bit on IVA. The last time I bought a property I negotiated the professional fees down from 1.5% to 1%. Can't hurt to ask.

 

[earlyretirement]

Are you sure the notary protocol isn't 1,300 pesos and NOT $1,300 US? How much is the property you are buying?

The buyer pays the majority of the legal fees when buying but the seller ALWAYS has some fees as well. It differs from Escribano to Escribano but there is a maximum set by the Colegio of Escribanos what they can charge.

That $1,300 dollar Notary Protocol sounds very high. I think it might be in pesos.

Also, it doesn't hurt to ask the Escribano if you don't need an official receipt if you can avoid the IVA. Many will do that. Same as realtors so ask and see if you can avoid that. I'm not saying what is right or wrong. I'm just telling you that many Escribanos will waive it if you don't need any official receipt.

Also, on new construction projects you're forced to use the building's Escribano and the fees are always more expensive on totally brand new buildings vs. pre-existing where you can pick your Escribano.

As an example, here is a bill for my friend's apartment that he sold last week. The price on the title deed was $118,000. You can see the corresponding fees below from the Escribano. Keep in mind the stamp tax (impuesto de sellos was less than the normal 1.25% as the buyer got some exemptions) but the transfer tax is always 1.5% of the price on the title deed. Hopefully this will help give you an idea. All prices are in PESOS.

CONCEPTOS NO GRAVADOS POR EL I.V.A.
Estudio de Títulos 1.900,00
Impuesto a la Transferencia de Inmuebles 7.676,25
Impuesto de Sellos Compraventa 1.897,00
Certificados Registro/Administrativos 545,00
Impuesto Ley 25.413 126,99
Subtotal : 12.145,24
CONCEPTOS GRAVADOS POR EL I.V.A.
Aporte Notarial Compraventa 464,41
Diligenciamiento de Certificados 1.705,50
Liquidación Retenciones/Planillas AFIP 532,40
Subtotal : 2.702,31


Here is another bill on a $785,000 US Dollars property (On this one the Escribano quoted all US dollars).


CONCEPTOS NO GRAVADOS POR EL I.V.A.
Venta
Impuesto de Sellos Compraventa 9,812.50
Çsello Matriz y Testimonio
Derecho de escritura (A) y (B) 19.00
Tasa de Inscripción Compra
Minutas de Inscripción, carpeta y anexo
ITI 11,775.00

Gastos de reglamento
Desafectacion de Bien de Familia
Certificados Registro de la Propiedad y administrativos 142.00
Certificados Administrativos
Impuestos debitos y creditos 259.05

Subtotal: 22,007.55

CONCEPTOS GRAVADOS POR EL I.V.A.

Aporte Notarial Compraventa 628.00
Dilligenciamiento de los certificados 1,562.00
foja elaborada
Estudio de Títulos 1,895.00
Honorarios Compra 1%

Subtotal: 4,085.00




Subtotal: 26,092.55

IVA Inscripto: 857.85

MONTOS EN DOLARES TOTAL u$s 26,950.40

 

[Flexter]

Thanks for your responses.

I'll certainly negotiate the escribano's professional fees where I can and ask about the IVA, but what I'm trying to ascertain is whether the specific fees listed are legitimate. By quoting specific percentages for "notarial input" (0.075%) and "registration of property rate" (0.2%) suggests that these are standard fixed fees mandated by the govt (I realize these are not the escribano's professional fees). However, in the 2 examples that earlyretirement kindly lists, I can't see figures that would correspond to these fees. Perhaps this is because the examples listed are for sales and mine is a purchase, so different fees are levied? Any ideas?

Earlyretirement - to your question re the notary protocol, it is USD. But note that its not just notary protocol, but "notary protocol, registration fees, etc." that have been listed as "other expenses" for USD 1300. Of course, I need to get the defined breakdown of each, including what "etc." refers to. Nonetheless, do you know what "notary protocol" actually is? Your query and response suggests you have experience of this.

Finally, what is the standard split on legal fees paid by the buyer and those paid by the seller? I realize the stamp tax is split 50:50, but is the seller also obligated to pay a portion of the escribano's fees? The escribano hasn't mentioned this to me. Again, any insight anyone can provide from their own experience would be appreciated.

Thanks again in advance.

 

[Davidglen77]

Keep in mind that most professionals here have to pay a percentage of their earnings to the "professional colegio" (notice that I put this in quotation marks) that issue their professional license. Escribanos to the "colegio de escribanos", Translators to the "colegio de Traductores Públicos", and Lawyers to the "colegio de abogados". These "colegios" are really nothing more than burocratic entities full of administrative employees that do little to no work and collect huge amounts of money from professionals. The awful part is they are supposed to regulate and oversee professional activities, but if you go to one of them to file a complaint against their members they pretty much laugh in your face and do NOTHING about it. For example, I filed a complaint againt an inmobiliaria for several severe infractions, the CUCICBA, which is the "Colegio Único de Corredores Inmobiliarios de Buenos Aires" made me fill out tons of paperwork, certified copies, etc. They NEVER once responded back to me and after repeated phone calls, e-mails to them, I was told that nothing would be done because they didn't really find the infraction serious enough, I guess FRAUD and stealing is just fine with them. The sad part is if you are a professional you can't practice without paying these corrupt "colegios" a percentage of your earnings. It's really an awful system but just another broken part of doing business in Argentina.

 

[Flexter]

Thanks David. From what he's listed, the 0.075% fee for "Notarial Input" is what the escribano pays to the "Notary Institution", which is presumably the Colegio de Escribanos. Any ideas whether that's a set amount for all escribanos? Again, the examples that earlyretirement lists don't seem to reference this fee. It all seems pretty arbitrary.

Anyone got further insight on these matters?