Expats not happy, why stay?

gouchobob said:
I can never understand comparisons of B.A. with other cities like London or New York that are more expensive and that because of this B.A. must be a bargain. I don't think this has anything to do with it. Incomes are much higher in London or New York which support higher prices(which remain way too high and overvalued in my opinion). Incomes are much lower in Argentina which results in lower prices.

The test of whether property in a given location is fairly priced is whether not local people living and earning local incomes can afford to buy. If property becomes priced beyond what people can afford, prices will eventually adjust down to what people can afford. You can delay this day with easy credit and mortgages like was done in the USA but sooner or later prices will fall in line with incomes.

My point was that I wouldn't expect property values to increase in B.A. while people's purchasing power is being eroded by high inflation. To me affordability is a lot more logical predictor of prices than a comparison of prices some other city in a different country and continent.

As best I can tell, Argentina real estate is it's own breed all together. Things such as negro y blanco, not being able to leverage, no appraisals or home inspections done and the lack of MLS, listed comparables or Realtors eager to share listings are all things I haven't seen before I moved here.

Even more loco, here in Bariloche, some properties that don't sell have the asking price raised. I kid you not, there were some small cabañas on the lake that went from 250K to 290K and sold while listed at 320K a couple years ago.
 
gouchobob said:
Incomes are much higher in London or New York which support higher prices(which remain way too high and overvalued in my opinion).

I don't really think that property in Manhattan is overvalued. It's an island. That lots and lots of people want to live on. Very limited supply of housing units and incredible demand; what exactly would drive prices down?
 
ssr said:
I don't really think that property in Manhattan is overvalued. It's an island. That lots and lots of people want to live on. Very limited supply of housing units and incredible demand; what exactly would drive prices down?

I predict prices will be driven down when the credit totally dries up and people have to face the music. You can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long.
 
ElQueso said:
According to you, it's everyone else's fault that Latin America is in the shape it's in. That, by the way, goes very well with your government's propaganda.

You are giving the US and Europe many of the same attributes that your country has as far as war (excepting the atomic bomb, but those were special circumstances and not black and white as you would have everyone believe) and genocide goes, including wiping out indigenous races. Or maybe you can ignore the complete destruction of the indigenies in Argentina and almost all of Latin America as well?

I specifically was talking about the standard of living and the fact that Latin countries are more corrupt than the US and many European cultures. That doesn't ahve anyhting to do specifically with one being better than the other - you're right, we're all human and we ALL make some pretty big mistakes.

But - latin countries have more corruption, have less opportunities, than other countries. It's not because the rest fo the world wants to "keep you down." Get over it. Quit fnding all the excuses except your own actions as to why latin coutnries are not successful.

You really think that there is equal opportunity for the poor here, more so than in the US? That's a good one. We don't make special neighborhoods for people there, any more than you do here. Like the villas here, people tend to live where they can and many times ethnic populations CHOOSE to live together. It's just that there's really not such a big ethinic population here other than latino to show as an example. But the poor in the US live MUCH better than the poor here and there are fewer.

There is less corruption in the US and more people try to stamp it out when they see it. Of course, neither is the US perfect. There are other countries that have much less corruption than the US!

But the opportunites, at least for right now, are much better for ANYONE in the US, be they rich or poor, than here. it's a cultural thing, that unfortunately is changing too quickly as people look to blame others that they don't have as much as some and want to be given something for nothing.

Of course, you will deny that all that. As you say that everything that has kept Latin people "down" is all the fault of the US and others like it - never the fault of "you the people" or your government.

Y hablo bien tu idioma, amigo. Quizas no perfecto, pero la verdad hablo suficiente para comunicarme aca.

Este foro es para los expatriados, nos comunicamos en ingles. La verdad, parece a mi que eres up poco mal educado venir aca y hablar en tu idioma, pero bueno, puedes hacer lo que quieres. Eligo escribir en ingles aca porque puedo. Hablo español todo el tiempo, cada dia. Nadie de mi familia hablan ingles. Nadie de mis vecinos hablan ingles. Los guardia en mi barrio no hablan ingles. Parece a mi que estoy funcionando bien sin ingles.

Tambien, intiendo muy bien algunas cosas de la cultura latina. Me puedes llamar rascista si quieres pero no tiene nada que ver con lo que dije. Lo siento si piensas que todos las culturas son iguales, pero no es asi. Yo no estoy diciendo que latinos mismos son inferiores, pero uno puede ver facilimente que hay diferencias grandes entre la cultura de los Estados Unidos y de casi cada pais Latino. Algunas diferencias son mejores, otras peores. Yo no se porque, pero se que no tiene nada que ver con la raza, ni con ADN, etc. Tiene que ver, por qualquiera razon, con la cultura.

Eso que mencionás sucedió hace cientos de años, cuando el territorio de la actual República Argentina estaba en manos de los extranjeros y de los hijos de los extranjeros... si mataban amerindios fue porque traían consigo inculcada la idea de que su raza y cultura europea era superior a las demás... incluso muchos de nuestros próceres y primeros gobernantes iban a estudiar a las universidades europeas, por lo tanto es entendible que estuvieran a favor de la cacería de amerindios si traían inculcado desde Europa que la raza y cultura blanca era superior y que el cristianismo era la religión verdadera...


Así como vos generalizas diciendo que la cultura latina es más corrupta que las otras, los europeos generalizaron al decir que todas las tribus americanas eran salvajes e incivilizables y con esa generalización justificaron el genocidio, robo y destrucción de culturas que hicieron y que tanto me echas en cara...

Y así como vos generalizas o ponés en un nivel inferior a la cultura latina al decir que es más corrupta que las demás, lo mismo hicieron los nazis al decir que los judíos y otras razas eran inferiores a la de ellos...

Fijate todo el daño que produjo el hecho de hacer generalizaciones estúpidas como la que hacés vos...

Yo no creo que escribir en mi idioma sea una falta de respeto... ¿desde cuando se le prohibe a las personas expresarse en su idioma materno? xD
 
soulskier said:
I predict prices will be driven down when the credit totally dries up and people have to face the music. You can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long.

Eh? Care to explain that? And, again, I'm talking about real estate on the island of Manhattan. How would some credit crisis drive prices down? I'd love to buy a brownstone in Manhattan so if you can tell me what signs of impending credit doom to look out for so I can swoop in and get one cheap, I'd certainly appreciate it. But, of course, I'd just be one of the many people lining up to buy real estate in Manhattan and all of that demand would just drive prices up again, no?
 
ssr said:
Eh? Care to explain that? And, again, I'm talking about real estate on the island of Manhattan. How would some credit crisis drive prices down? I'd love to buy a brownstone in Manhattan so if you can tell me what signs of impending credit doom to look out for so I can swoop in and get one cheap, I'd certainly appreciate it. But, of course, I'd just be one of the many people lining up to buy real estate in Manhattan and all of that demand would just drive prices up again, no?

One possible reason for a further deterioration in the real estate market in the US is the need for the Fed to raise interest rates to attract investors in Tbills as well as to avoid another bubble market.

When rates from the Fed go up, rates for all types of loans will go up. According to the article below, the overall cost of the home goes up 19 percent for every 1 percent change in the interest rate. So, since the US home market is based on loans, and not all cash deals like in Argentina, prices will be extremely succeptible to changes in the interest rates. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/business/economy/11rates.html

Rates will go up, and the spread that investors will want on home loans will probably never be the same again after this last fiasco, so it will be more expensive to buy on credit. People generally make the plunge based on what they can afford per month, and not the actual price of the real estate.

Not that I wouldn't think about buying real estate in Manhattan if the price were right (compared to rental rates)
 
People in Manhattan is not "the people", they are the guys taking the profits form the greatest scam ever (the Bush Obama bills to save the "too big to fail" companies). Thus prices in the island will not go down with the crisis.
 
marksoc said:
People in Manhattan is not "the people", they are the guys taking the profits form the greatest scam ever (the Bush Obama bills to save the "too big to fail" companies). Thus prices in the island will not go down with the crisis.

Sounds like you know Manhattan well......
 
ssr said:
I don't really think that property in Manhattan is overvalued. It's an island. That lots and lots of people want to live on. Very limited supply of housing units and incredible demand; what exactly would drive prices down?

Manhanttan and NYC is very expensive. While places like Manahattan will probably always command a premium in price I guess its the amount of the premium that is at issue. If you look at income levels in NYC they are somewhat higher than most other areas of the country but real estate prices are much much higher, much higher than can be supported by the income levels there. What kept this game going until the bust was easy credit and mortgages with no questions asked. That game is over.

People will have to come up with reasonable down payments and prove that they have the income to make the payments, in addition rates are probably going to be higher in the future. All this is going to significantly reduce what people can afford and spend on housing. Real estate prices went up much faster than incomes in the last boom and can not be sustained at these levels. This is true of many places not just NYC. Prices are coming down now and will continue to for some time to come(whether it be actual declines or flat prices that are eroded by inflation).
 
gouchobob said:
Manhanttan and NYC is very expensive. While places like Manahattan will probably always command a premium in price I guess its the amount of the premium that is at issue. If you look at income levels in NYC they are somewhat higher than most other areas of the country but real estate prices are much much higher, much higher than can be supported by the income levels there. What kept this game going until the bust was easy credit and mortgages with no questions asked. That game is over. .

I'm going to assume you have never bought in NYC - specifically Manhattan? The vast majority of buildings there are co-ops. And in the vast majority of co-ops, you not only have to put down 20/25% of the asking price in cash, you have to have another 20/25% of the asking price in liquid assets. Plus present financial records, reference letters, employment verifications, history of financial stability, etc to the co-op board in order to be approved A bank may not have asked questions but you can bet most co-op boards ask a lot!:D

And FWIW - prices did drop in Manhattan and the entire city. And there were more apts available. That has changed again and prices are on their way up. I highly doubt NYC will ever go through a real drop in prices.

And what this has to do with BsAs - I will never know!
 
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