Family on a tourist visa (planning to stay a couple of years)

[leaven.guise]

Hi everyone, I'm sorry if this has been asked plenty of times, but I can't find the answer for our specific case.

We are a family of four (two adults and two small children) on a tourist visa, who are planning to follow a schedule similar to this one every year (our son started elementary school here already):
- Aug, 1st - Dec, 15th - Buenos Aires (4 months and 2 weeks)
- Dec. 16th - Feb 15th - Europe (2 months)
- Feb. 16th - Jul. 7th - Buenos Aires (4 months and 3 weeks)
- Jul. 8th - Jul. 31st - Europe (3 weeks)

I thought the best option was to do the visa run within 90 days of our arrival, but reading some posts in this forum it seems that it's probably not the wisest option...

What do you guys think the best option would be, considering we are planning to stay for at least a couple of years? Visa extension or paying for overstaying each time?

We don't want to apply for the visa considering the bureaucracy involved and the fact that we are working remotely (so all our income is in EUR).

Thank you so much!

Marcel

 

[arvest]

Extend your tourist visa each time, you should be able to do another 90 day extension for a total of 180 days each entry

 

[sts7049]

seems like a risky strategy after maybe the second time extending. you might catch some attention if they look at your history of entries and exits.

 

[steveinbsas]

I thought the best option was to do the visa run within 90 days of our arrival, but reading some posts in this forum it seems that it's probably not the wisest option...

Technically, it is illegal and getting back in (after the first time) could be problematic.

 

[Redpossum]

There's no need for a visa run to Colonia, and as Steve says it could potentially be risky.

Migraciones will give you another 90 days for the asking, when your first 90 days is about to expire. Your schedule looks like you're never planning to be here even 5 months, let alone 6, so there's no problem. You're golden.

When I was younger, I would have envied you. These days, wild horses couldn't drag me to Europe.

 

[steveinbsas]

We are a family of four (two adults and two small children) on a tourist visa, who are planning to follow a schedule similar to this one every year (our son started elementary school here already):
- Aug, 1st - Dec, 15th - Buenos Aires (4 months and 2 weeks)
- Dec. 16th - Feb 15th - Europe (2 months)
- Feb. 16th - Jul. 7th - Buenos Aires (4 months and 3 weeks)
- Jul. 8th - Jul. 31st - Europe (3 weeks)

Are you actually here now and is the above schedule for 2022 and 2023?

If you arrived on August 1st your 90 day visas woud already have expired.

If so, did you get an extension or have you already overstayed?

If you have not overstayed, I suggest you get the prorroga de permanencia within 10 days of the expiration date, but, as sts7049 points out regarding future extensions:

seems like a risky strategy after maybe the second time extending. you might catch some attention if they look at your history of entries and exits.

Assuming you have no problem reentering the first time (after being in Europe for two months) and are granted new 90 day tourist permits, it might be "too soon" to get those permits extended for an additional 90 days.

I don't recall anyone ever posting that they did that succesfully.

Migraciones will give you another 90 days for the asking, when your first 90 days is about to expire. Your schedule looks like you're never planning to be here even 5 months, let alone 6, so there's no problem. You're golden.

Yes, migracioues will give you an additional 90 days for the asking, at least the first time, but I don't think the issue is whether or not your physical presence for each visit totals less than six months. The extension is good for 90 days and the total of the two is six months.

You will probably get new 90 day tourist permits the first time you try to renter within three to eight weeks, but I seriously dobut that that you will be given an extension of those permits. It's just too soon. I've never heard of anyone getting two 90 day extensions in one twelve month period.

At some point, migraciones will probably tell you that you are "abusing" the tourist visa and to get temporary residency or get out. This could happen when you ask for the second extension or when you try to enter for the thrid time in just over two years.

Hopefully, you won't be told you have ten days to leave the country if and when you apply for an extension of the second 90 day tourist permits, but they have the power to do so and that's what will happen if and when they deny the second extension.

PS: As always, I welcome any corrections or additional information to what I have written in this post as to when you should or should not go to migraciones.

 

[arvest]

Are you actually here now and is the above schedule for 2022 and 2023?

If you arrived on August 1st your 90 day visas woud already have expired.

If so, did you get an extension or have you already overstayed?

If you have not overstayed, I suggest you get the prorroga de permanencia within 10 days of the expiration date, but, as sts7049 points out regarding future extensions:



Assuming you have no problem reentering the first time (after being in Europe for two months) and are granted new 90 day tourist permits, it might be "too soon" to get those permits extended for an additional 90 days.

I don't recall anyone ever posting that they did that succesfully.




Yes, migracioues will give you an additional 90 days for the asking, at least the first time, but I don't think the issue is whether or not your physical presence for each visit totals less than six months. The extension is good for 90 days and the total of the two is six months.

You will probably get new 90 day tourist permits the first time you try to renter within three to eight weeks, but I seriously dobut that that you will be given an extension of those permits. It's just too soon. I've never heard of anyone getting two 90 day extensions in one twelve month period.

At some point, migraciones will probably tell you that you are "abusing" the tourist visa and to get temporary residency or get out. This could happen when you ask for the second extension or when you try to enter for the thrid time in just over two years.

Hopefully, you won't be told you have ten days to leave the country if and when you apply for an extension of the second 90 day tourist permits, but they have the power to do so and that's what will happen if and when they deny the second extension.

PS: As always, I welcome any corrections or additional information to what I have written in this post as to when you should or should not go to migraciones.

You could also engage Bajo Ceros services for citizenship, 9 months a year should hit the mark for actually residing in Argentina. And the catch is the moment you apply at the court, you're already considered a citizen and you can't be deported. Whether you'll get the citizenship within a reasonable time is something else, but at a minimum it'll protect you from being deported. Bajo Cero should be able to recommend the best course of action for your situation

 

[steveinbsas]

You could also engage Bajo Ceros services for citizenship, 9 months a year should hit the mark for actually residing in Argentina. And the catch is the moment you apply at the court, you're already considered a citizen and you can't be deported. Whether you'll get the citizenship within a reasonable time is something else, but at a minimum it'll protect you from being deported. Bajo Cero should be able to recommend the best course of action for your situation

That is always an alternative, but citizenship for non residents (represented by BC2) would come with a price tag in the $5000USD+ price range, perhaps X 2 ($5000+ for each parent...assuming the child is exempt) if they want to come and go (not just not be deported) as desired under the "protection" of the court.

 

[leaven.guise]

Are you actually here now and is the above schedule for 2022 and 2023?

If you arrived on August 1st your 90 day visas woud already have expired.

If so, did you get an extension or have you already overstayed?

If you have not overstayed, I suggest you get the prorroga de permanencia within 10 days of the expiration date, but, as sts7049 points out regarding future extensions:



Assuming you have no problem reentering the first time (after being in Europe for two months) and are granted new 90 day tourist permits, it might be "too soon" to get those permits extended for an additional 90 days.

I don't recall anyone ever posting that they did that succesfully.




Yes, migracioues will give you an additional 90 days for the asking, at least the first time, but I don't think the issue is whether or not your physical presence for each visit totals less than six months. The extension is good for 90 days and the total of the two is six months.

You will probably get new 90 day tourist permits the first time you try to renter within three to eight weeks, but I seriously dobut that that you will be given an extension of those permits. It's just too soon. I've never heard of anyone getting two 90 day extensions in one twelve month period.

At some point, migraciones will probably tell you that you are "abusing" the tourist visa and to get temporary residency or get out. This could happen when you ask for the second extension or when you try to enter for the thrid time in just over two years.

Hopefully, you won't be told you have ten days to leave the country if and when you apply for an extension of the second 90 day tourist permits, but they have the power to do so and that's what will happen if and when they deny the second extension.

PS: As always, I welcome any corrections or additional information to what I have written in this post as to when you should or should not go to migraciones.

Thank you for you insight @steveinbsas.

The question here is how a family with their centre of economic, social and personal interest in another country (that is to say, working, paying taxes, going to the doctor and having family, friends in Germany) can live in Argentina for periods of 4/5 months without breaking the law or committing fraudulent acts... especially considering that those periods of 4/5 months can be cut in half quite often with trips to visit family in the US. Not sure how we could identified as tax evaders by Argentinan authorities as well, since we work and pay taxes in Germany where the tax rate is higher than here, and we do not generate any income here (all income comes from real estate in other countries, where taxes are consequently paid).

I think the world has changed, many people have now more than ever the freedom to call home different places without being considered criminals, especially if the components of their family come from - and live in - different countries (four in our case).

All of that being said, I was curious to understand whether it's better to pay the overstay fee at the airport each time, or each time to ask for an extension for periods which should not exceed 2/7 weeks (we will never need more), considering that this might be a repeated process in the future...

Thank you for your feedback!

 

[leaven.guise]

Are you actually here now and is the above schedule for 2022 and 2023?

If you arrived on August 1st your 90 day visas woud already have expired.

If so, did you get an extension or have you already overstayed?

If you have not overstayed, I suggest you get the prorroga de permanencia within 10 days of the expiration date, but, as sts7049 points out regarding future extensions:



Assuming you have no problem reentering the first time (after being in Europe for two months) and are granted new 90 day tourist permits, it might be "too soon" to get those permits extended for an additional 90 days.

I don't recall anyone ever posting that they did that succesfully.




Yes, migracioues will give you an additional 90 days for the asking, at least the first time, but I don't think the issue is whether or not your physical presence for each visit totals less than six months. The extension is good for 90 days and the total of the two is six months.

You will probably get new 90 day tourist permits the first time you try to renter within three to eight weeks, but I seriously dobut that that you will be given an extension of those permits. It's just too soon. I've never heard of anyone getting two 90 day extensions in one twelve month period.

At some point, migraciones will probably tell you that you are "abusing" the tourist visa and to get temporary residency or get out. This could happen when you ask for the second extension or when you try to enter for the thrid time in just over two years.

Hopefully, you won't be told you have ten days to leave the country if and when you apply for an extension of the second 90 day tourist permits, but they have the power to do so and that's what will happen if and when they deny the second extension.

PS: As always, I welcome any corrections or additional information to what I have written in this post as to when you should or should not go to migraciones.

Sorry, I didn't update the page and I was answering to the previous version of your message.

Those are approximate, plausible dates considering school breaks... we are currently here and we landed on Aug. 27th with our return flight on December, 18th (I have been in Europe for 2 weeks at the end of October).

We will be back before school will start at the end of February, I will be in Europe on my own mid-Aprile and we will all probably go to the US for fall break May, 1st to 5th, then go back to Europe for north-hemisphere summer when school ends in the beginning of July for 3 weeks... and we will have another week off mid-September, which we could use to visit Chile.

Actually we were here as well from March, 7th to April, 7th and again June, 4th to the 20th, when we were traveling a bit around South America.

So yeah, we like to move around and the only thing avoiding us to do so is our son going to school, but we still do it as often as wen can... we have no intention of exploiting the system, we just need a place away from war (and winter now) where to stay for a couple of years... but knowing how complicated and messy the system is here, I was given the impression from other expats that the wisest solution was not to apply for a visa which we would only use for one or two extra years and would come with an endless number of different headaches attached...