Feelings Of Safety And Security (Crime In Argentina)

[Montauk_Project]

The other day, an ex-judge was on TV saying how bad crime was here, etc, but he himself admitted that there is less crime than in the US (crime in Argentina has gone down since the 2001-2003 crisis, not up), but in the US it is different since, IN HIS WORDS, it is black people killing black people, here white people are killed, so that is much more serious. (!!!!!)
This was national TV, Mirta Legrand show. I would like to say I couldn´t believe what he was saying, but it is the sad state of analysis on TV these days.
While you can under report theft it would seem harder to under report murder.

 

[HenryNisental]

First of all, we do have truthful stats in this country now. The Gov has issued orders to all police dept not to register hard crimes, if possible, in order to improve the country´s image.You have to twist the balls of a policeman to force him to accept a crime report.
On the contrary, stats in America are very genuine. UK stats also are greatly deformed, since in that country they only consider the crimes that had been RESOLVED AND WITH A FIRM SENTENCE. NEITHER RAPES OR CRIMES COMMITED BY MINORS ARE INCLUDED IN THEIR STATS EITHER.
For more info read my book "LA PORTACION OCULTA?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Are we seriously discussing this based on STATS? Government provided stats?
People do not report crime, it´s even dangerous to do so. Police do not record stats, the top brass does not like it.
Politicians, specially those in power don´t like the subject. They have no answers and are better at avoiding the questions than solving anything.
The Judicial system also has its stats sources but prefer to keep them low profile as well for their own reasons.

You´re joking, right?

I dare say homicide stats are believable, because they're so hard to hide.

 

[pitipur]

The other day, an ex-judge was on TV saying how bad crime was here, etc, but he himself admitted that there is less crime than in the US (crime in Argentina has gone down since the 2001-2003 crisis, not up), but in the US it is different since, IN HIS WORDS, it is black people killing black people, here white people are killed, so that is much more serious. (!!!!!)
This was national TV, Mirta Legrand show. I would like to say I couldn´t believe what he was saying, but it is the sad state of analysis on TV these days.
While you can under report theft it would seem harder to under report murder.

And there are many right wing american politicians who would agree with this judge, sadly.

 

[Gringoboy]

I'm going to be doing my level best not to become another stat in that case.

 

[pauper]

That nationmaster link is complete nonsense. It comes down to how much crime is reported within the country and how much of that becomes a statistic by the police.

I would agree that comparisons with the USA are redundant for the reasons stated. However when using comparisons across South America things become a little muddier - I haven't been able to find data on crime reporting by nation but I think it would be safe to assume massive under reporting across most of the continent and so maybe some loose comparisons wouldn't be entirely unreasonable.

However, if you go back to those old debates and manage to read through the hundreds of pages of going around in circles you will see that the fundamental problem is that they are not well defined from the outset and eventually we end up with two distinct debates happening in parallel. When asking the question "is BA dangerous?" some people (like myself) will look for an objective answer by trying to find where BA sits in terms of crime by comparison with other cities in the region and the world. I would also look at crime statistics over time in BA to see if there is any correlation with inseguridad becoming one of the biggest concerns for people in BA over the last 5-6 years.

Another camp will come to debate their subjective experience - how safe they feel, what has happened to them and the people they know. They will say it doesn't matter what the crime rate is in another city what matters is how they feel here and now - that's entirely valid though I'm not sure how useful it is to the question at hand (interestingly, in one of the last mega crime debates on these pages, one of the most vocal champions of this line of thought had a Damascene conversion when they found a statistical tidbit that shed BA in a bad light when compared to other South American cities, suddenly comparative statistical analysis was kosher!). I have never been a victim of crime here despite spending almost all of my time south of the autopista 25 de Mayo in some of the less salubrious parts of Capital and conurbano sur. I still know very few people among friends and family who have been victims of crime and in general I don't feel unsafe. At the same time I don't feel my experience and the experience of those I know well is all that relevant to a question about a city of 14 million people. It's a huge complex question and one that I feel utlimately needs hard reliable data to answer it.

Unfortunately since the government stopped publishing crime statistics in 2006 or 2007 (and, yes, I think we can read something into that) we don't have much to go on. Yes, murder rates are very low for South America and about average worldwide and are still significantly lower than they were in the 90s - though the argument tends to be that it is property theft that has skyrocketed here over the last 5-7 years. We have the Torcuato Di Tella victimisation studies - though I'm not sure we could put much emphasis on unverified household surveys (nor have they tended to suggest a steady increase in crime anyway - at least up until a couple years ago when I last checked). Thus we aren't left with much more than our own perceptions on the subject, mine would be that yes there has been an increase in property crime here as well as a disproportionate increase in Anibal's 'sensación de inseguridad' but I don't say this with any great certainty due to the reasons outlined above. Don't worry though, I'm sure you won't have to wait long to get some much more vociferous opinions

 

[pauper]

The other day, an ex-judge was on TV saying how bad crime was here, etc, but he himself admitted that there is less crime than in the US (crime in Argentina has gone down since the 2001-2003 crisis, not up), but in the US it is different since, IN HIS WORDS, it is black people killing black people, here white people are killed, so that is much more serious. (!!!!!)
This was national TV, Mirta Legrand show. I would like to say I couldn´t believe what he was saying, but it is the sad state of analysis on TV these days.
While you can under report theft it would seem harder to under report murder.

I took it that he was saying that crime here isn't so confined to poorer neighbourhoods and hence there is a lot more media attention and middle class panic giving an impression that there is far more crime here. But maybe I just found what he was saying so unthinkable that I decided on something more palatable.

 

[French jurist]

The other day, an ex-judge was on TV saying how bad crime was here, etc, but he himself admitted that there is less crime than in the US (crime in Argentina has gone down since the 2001-2003 crisis, not up), but in the US it is different since, IN HIS WORDS, it is black people killing black people, here white people are killed, so that is much more serious. (!!!!!)
This was national TV, Mirta Legrand show. I would like to say I couldn´t believe what he was saying, but it is the sad state of analysis on TV these days.
While you can under report theft it would seem harder to under report murder.

I didn't watch this (don't watch TV since a few years) but maybe was he trying to say that white people getting murdered will get much more attention from the medias? (like for instance there are many Qom people, kids & adults, who get murdered by "white" people = you won't see that much on TV, while the Angeles Rawson case got aired for weeks because she was white).

 

[Montauk_Project]

I took it that he was saying that crime here isn't so confined to poorer neighbourhoods and hence there is a lot more media attention and middle class panic giving an impression that there is far more crime here. But maybe I just found what he was saying so unthinkable that I decided on something more palatable.

No, he was saying that the need for longer sentences and lynchings is to prevent this crime which attacks "la gente" and not "negros que matan entre sí". It was the most racist thing I heard in a while, as well as being incorrect. I don´t like even typing it because I don´t agree with it at all.
There have been many cases of "gatillo facil" (police killings) and no one is suggesting lynching the police or on TV talking about the fear of leaving ones house because you might get attacked by the cops.

 

[ARbound]

I totally believe a judge would say that, it's Argentina, I tell my friends that it's the most racist countries I've been to (at least vocally, maybe America is more, but it's not ok to say racist stuff in public in most places now).

As for statistics about crime I say they're as real as the official exchange rate. On paper they're true, but they don't exist in reality.

I said before how the police didn't want to take a guy I work witch's robbery and kidnapping report. It's a great cycle:

- Crime gets worse
- Need more cops
- Cops solve less cases
- Take less reports
- People don't waste time reporting
- Crime rate goes down
- Praise Cristina!