Food prices at record high - to stay high for extended period

gouchobob said:
Of course I see in your latter posts this is has really descended into kind of a let's hate the U.S. and Bush for the worlds problems. The new left major tenets I believe are anti-globalization, anti-anything U.S., anti-Israel (sometimes outright anti-Semitic in nature). Maybe you and the BBW could explain to the rest of the forum what it is you are in favor of. I confess I really haven't taken time to understand your movement. Do you want the world to move to some kind of Hugo Chavez/Fidel Castro model, or some other new and exciting form of government we don't know about yet.
Does your strange speculation about my political standpoint change the fact that World market price for 1 Metric ton of wheat was US$ 157.67 in June 2010 and US$ 341.16 on March 04, 2010?

Your US¢ 2 will buy (at world market price, no mark-up) 60 g or 2 ounces of wheat unless wheat is highly subsidized.

My favorite US presidents are Franklin D. Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Left, right, right, right - and I read Financial Times. Surprised?
I am not locked in a left or right position but judge each on their merits.

As for George Wingnut, he started the Iraq war which did not expose any sort of weapon of mass destruction. The rest of the world already knew that, Brix told us. So far direct Iraq war costs have been more than US$ 700 billion or half the total US deficit. Brilliant performance?

gouchobob said:
I was only extending your logic to what a loaf of bread would cost in an underdeveloped country if only 2% of a loaf of bread is wheat in the U.S., i.e. you could buy the wheat and make it yourself for only 2 cents. You really haven't responded to my point that food costs are made up by a lot of items not just the food item itself.
Not my logic, yours. I specifically pointed out that to the majority of the world's population a rise in the price of grain is equal to the rise in bread prices, because they bake their bread themselves.

I bake some bread myself, a German/Scandinavian specialty.

Approximate budgets

Time ................ 2010 June . 2011 March
1 kg harina de centeno AR$ 8.00 . AR$ 12.50 - up AR$ 4.50 or 56%
50 g yeast ........... AR$ 1.20 . AR$ 01.50
Salt & sugar ......... AR$ 0.05 . AR$ 00.06
0,7 liter of water ... AR$ 0.02 . AR$ 00.03
Gas for oven ......... AR$ 0.05 . AR$ 00.06
Total ................ AR$ 9.32 . AR$ 14.15 - up AR$ 4.83 or 52%


Edit: the correct percentage for the total is only 52% - so the rise in price isn't that bad, afterall. And you would get 60, not 6 g of wheat for US¢ 2 - I shouldn't make calculations after staying up all night, but it still makes a very small bread.

Wheat flour is cheaper but for the majority of humanity still up some 35-40% since June
 
John.St said:
Does your strange speculation about my political standpoint change the fact that World market price for 1 Metric ton of wheat was US$ 157.67 in June 2010 and US$ 341.16 on March 04, 2010?

Your US¢ 2 will buy (at world market price, no mark-up) 6 g or 0.2 ounces of wheat unless wheat is highly subsidized.

My favorite US presidents are Franklin D. Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Left, right, right, right - and I read Financial Times. Surprised?
I am not locked in a left or right position but judge each on their merits.

As for George Wingnut, he started the Iraq war which did not expose any sort of weapon of mass destruction. The rest of the world already knew that, Brix told us. So far direct Iraq war costs have been more than US$ 700 billion or half the total US deficit. Brilliant performance?

Not my logic, yours. I specifically pointed out that to the majority of the world's population a rise in the price of grain is equal to the rise in bread prices, because they bake their bread themselves.

I bake some bread myself, a German/Scandinavian specialty.

Approximate budgets

Time ................ 2010 June . 2011 March
1 kg harina de centeno AR$ 8.00 . AR$ 12.50 - up AR$ 4.50 or 56%
50 g yeast ........... AR$ 1.20 . AR$ 01.50
Salt & sugar ......... AR$ 0.05 . AR$ 00.06
0,7 liter of water ... AR$ 0.02 . AR$ 00.03
Gas for oven ......... AR$ 0.05 . AR$ 00.06
Total ................ AR$ 9.32 . AR$ 14.15 - up AR$ 4.83 or 65%


Wheat flour is cheaper but for the majority of humanity still up some 35-40% since June

Well you could switch to wheat flour which is about a quarter of your price above and save yourself some pesos.

We've already established prices have gone up due to higher demand places like China and India. Supplies are down due to droughts, fires, etc.
Higher prices will simulate more production. In a year or two we might talking about how the prices have dropped.

Are you saying there is something else going on? If you are spit it out, and quit beating around the bush(or beating on Bush for that matter). Is there some evil doing going on you want to make us aware of?
 
gouchobob said:
Well you could switch to wheat flour which is about a quarter of your price above and save yourself some pesos.

We've already established prices have gone up due to higher demand places like China and India. Supplies are down due to droughts, fires, etc.
Higher prices will simulate more production. In a year or two we might talking about how the prices have dropped.

Are you saying there is something else going on? If you are spit it out, and quit beating around the bush(or beating on Bush for that matter). Are there some evil doing going on you want to make us aware of?


Unfortunately the price of food is manipulated by a small section of the population to create enslavement in the population and change governments unloyal to their command. This year 2011 will be a watershed year of revolutions with sinister implications that will send the costs of food rising to double their current prices in less than 2 years.


The worlds lands have enough food to feed the population of the world many times over but we are being manipulated to believe that their are shortages due to overpopulation and the like .

Food shortages and their pricing structure and completely controlled by outside forces and are never based in reality.
 
gouchobob said:
... Are you saying there is something else going on? If you are spit it out, and quit beating around the bush(or beating on Bush for that matter). Is there some evil doing going on you want to make us aware of?
You keep speculating. Why?

As I see it food prices are high because of demand and production problems like fires in Russia, draughts etc.

As for George Wingnut, you cannot possibly have forgotten he kept telling that he spoke with God every day. Combine this with the "success" of he Iraq war and it tells us that either God hates him and misguided him or that he is a Wingnut.
 
perry said:
Unfortunately the price of food is manipulated by a small section of the population to create enslavement in the population.

Your statement has merit. Think they call it Kirchnerism.
 
For what it's worth, I've traveled and lived in many 3rd world countries and the one thing that is usually bought cooked is bread. I have no article to back me up but that's what I've seen. Problem is that a bakery has the oven. And they also, for a fee use their oven to bake other things for the community. I believe that individual ovens is a new (1st world) invention.
 
John.St said:
You keep speculating. Why?

As I see it food prices are high because of demand and production problems like fires in Russia, draughts etc.

As for George Wingnut, you cannot possibly have forgotten he kept telling that he spoke with God every day. Combine this with the "success" of he Iraq war and it tells us that either God hates him and misguided him or that he is a Wingnut.

Ok, maybe I was to quick to lump you in with the BBW. I apparently mistakenly thought your posting on the subject was going to lead up to some kind of conspiracy theory or attack on the evil empire of the north for deliberately causing the problem.
 
This is an interesting recent essay by Prabhat Patnaik:

Per capita foodgrain absorption, taking direct and indirect absorption together, has declined in India since the beginning of "liberalisation", first gently and of late precipitously, so much so that the level in 2008 itself was lower than in any year after 1953. In China too, there was a sharp decline in per capita total absorption of foodgrains between 1996 and 2003. It improved thereafter but even by 2005 had not reached the 1996 level; it could not have jumped suddenly in 2008. Since the population growth in both these countries has come down substantially, even their absolute absorption in 2008 could not have been much higher than in say the mid-nineties. It is not the increase in their demand therefore that can possibly explain the 2008-11 food inflation.

Many have rightly emphasised speculation as an important contributory factor. But while speculation can no doubt conjure up an inflationary upsurge out of thin air, it typically operates on an underlying demand-supply imbalance, accentuating its consequences. We therefore have to look at the underlying output and demand trends; and here we come across two startling facts.

First, per capita cereal output, and also foodgrain output, has declined significantly in absolute terms for the world as a whole since the eighties. The average annual per capita cereal output for the quinquennium 1980-85 was 335 kilogrammes; for 2000-05 it was 310 kilogrammes. Since this decline in output has also meant decline in consumption, hunger in the world has been on the increase long before the price upsurge of 2008. Or putting it differently, the world food crisis is a matter not of the last two years but of the last two decades or more.

The second fact is even more startling. Since per capita income in the world economy has been going up, and since therefore the demand for foodgrains in real terms should have been going up, the decline in per capita foodgrain output should have meant a rise in foodgrain price after the eighties, relative, say, to the price of manufactured goods. But we find that cereal price relative to manufactured goods declined by 46 per cent between 1980 and 2000. Indeed, between 1980 and 2008, the year of price upsurge, foodgrain prices in general fell relative to those of manufactured goods, even though per capita foodgrain output declined in absolute terms.

How could this happen? The answer is simple: a massive squeeze on the purchasing power (an "income deflation") imposed on the working population all over the world, and especially in the third world, by the universal pursuit of "neo-liberal" policies.

... This is what underlay the 2008 food price upsurge: with oil prices touching dizzy heights because of speculation, large-scale diversion of foodgrains for bio-fuels occurred, which pushed up foodgrain prices. What is more, because of this bio-fuel link, foodgrain prices now have got hitched to oil prices in the minds of speculators. When oil prices rise, so do foodgrain prices, in anticipation of higher diversion of grains to bio-fuels, even before any actual increase in diversion occurs. Not surprisingly, the very person who encouraged the diversion of foodgrains for bio-fuel, George Bush, also started the false explanation for food inflation, in terms of Indians and Chinese eating more, to divert attention from his own culpability.
 
bigbadwolf said:
This is an interesting recent essay by Prabhat Patnaik:

Who is Prabhat Panaik?

According to Wikepedia: Prabhat Patnaik is a staunch critic of neoliberal economic policies, and is known as a social scientist of Marxist-Leninist persuasion.

Doesn't mean what he is saying is wrong, however his political philosophy makes whatever he says suspect in my opinion, unless you agree that Marxism is a good economic system. I thought this philosophy had been completely discredited. It still exists in only a handful of countries which tend to feature populations with no freedoms and appalling living conditions.
 
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