Grit and seediness at arm's length?

[Moxon]

First of all, most tourists do not look for or take a tour like this.

Yes, but all who take the tour are tourists, what is your point?

that is what separates travelers and tourists.

There is of course no real difference, travellers are just tourists who think they're better than other tourists.

See if you can get a tour of the offices of one of Mauricio Macri's staff.

 

[Moxon]

or how about balloon tours of 1-11-14?

 

[EliA]

Oh please, Ailujjj, climb off that horse and read what you wrote...

...at least consider that for some people, getting a first-hand look at what so many people live is something that builds and enables their compassion for others. Sometimes it's important to step out of the bubble - even if on a train - and see what reality is for so many. Makes it a lot easier to put your problems in perspective, appreciate all that you have, and develop your ability view the world with a different perspective. Maybe even inspire you to take action in some form.

...and then read what DSC wrote:

I'm not sure why, but I've always had this morbid fascination.

I guess it's the same kind of thing that makes one look when you drive by the scene of an accident..

I don't live in a bubble and I've certainly seen my fair share of poverty, but it's not because I seek it out. Poverty surrounds us; it's not hard to look for. (How about that woman slouched at the bottom of the subte stairs holding an infant and begging for coins, DSC? Was that not "seedy" enough for you or do you mostly take taxis?)

I never let myself forget that I belong to a group of hyper elite world citizens (despite the fact that I don't even make that much money by Western standards). And while I'm sitting pretty I do what I can to donate to "good causes," like a lot of us do, and I have a pretty solid history of volunteering since I need to make myself feel even better about my lucky lot, but who the hell am I - or any of us - to come down off my/our throne and gawk at the masses? Talk about adding insult to injury.

It's disturbing to read words like "compassion" in conjunction with this thread, since DCS sounds like he's just trying to get his rocks off. He said it himself: it's a "morbid fascination" and he is seeking, literally, "grit and seediness." Yep, sounds like he's just oozing with the desire to make himself a more compassionate and inspired individual.

DSC, I realize you did not use the word "compassion" or make any reference to wanting to make youself a better person in your original post. However, I hope if asked you'd take the high (or at least honest) road and admit that you belong to the same elitist club as I do and that what you really want is a special kind of gruesome entertainment that the majority of the world's population knows as reality.

I'll judge you a whole lot less if you call it what it is.

 

[dsc]

Oh please, Ailujjj, climb off that horse and read what you wrote...

And please, EliA, climb off that moral high horse you seem to be stuck on..

(How about that woman slouched at the bottom of the subte stairs holding an infant and begging for coins, DSC? Was that not "seedy" enough for you or do you mostly take taxis?)

that I don't go out of my way to gawk at the less fortunate like they were animals in a zoo

I've taken few taxis here and I'm on the Subte most days.

You criticize my idea saying it's akin to viewing animals in a zoo and somehow getting in a begger's face in a Subte station and taking a picture against her wishes is less intrusive than photos moving on a train past a poorer area?

When I take photos it's generally off to the side and the main reason is to not be intrusive and pester people.

The way I see things, that shows respect to the less privileged.

DSC, I realize you did not use the word "compassion" or make any reference to wanting to make youself a better person in your original post.

Was I required to?

I create an online picture set with comments for each spot I travel to.

Part of each picture set is showing each destination warts & all.

That my family & friends who view them see everything each spot offers is important to me -- the beauty, the ordinary things, things vastly different from home, things similar. Of course this includes some of the grittier elements of wherever I travel to.

Yes, I will go back home to my first world country and feel grateful for being born there vs in an Argentine villa.

My family & friends who've seen my picture sets could say whether my comments are compassionate or not and if my travels make me a more rounded, better person.

Gaining the acceptance of presumptous people like EliA who make snap judgements in an Internet forum?

I could not care less..

 

[Ailujjj]

EliA - I specifically said it's not for everyone - wasn't a personal attack in the least. I was talking about the concept of seeing extreme poverty and not picking apart one anonymous person's poorly-chosen words. Just because I said it's not for everyone doesn't mean that those who do are good and those who don't are bad- surely the world is a little grayer than that. Who cares about the real travelers vs tourists business.

That said, I will say that seeing beggars in the city is really not the same thing as seeing a favela or truly destitute area with your own eyes, though. There's a reason so many people who have witnesses extreme poverty first-hand end up dramatically changing their lives thereafter. Much as I do love National Geographic, seeing pictures just isn't the same - and seeing for yourself isn't by definition gawking. Otherwise, why travel anywhere to begin with?

Everyone who themselves isn't at the bottom of the pyramid lives in a bubble. It's not a bad thing - we are very lucky.

Oh please, Ailujjj, climb off that horse and read what you wrote...



...and then read what DSC wrote:



I don't live in a bubble and I've certainly seen my fair share of poverty, but it's not because I seek it out. Poverty surrounds us; it's not hard to look for. (How about that woman slouched at the bottom of the subte stairs holding an infant and begging for coins, DSC? Was that not "seedy" enough for you or do you mostly take taxis?)

I never let myself forget that I belong to a group of hyper elite world citizens (despite the fact that I don't even make that much money by Western standards). And while I'm sitting pretty I do what I can to donate to "good causes," like a lot of us do, and I have a pretty solid history of volunteering since I need to make myself feel even better about my lucky lot, but who the hell am I - or any of us - to come down off my/our throne and gawk at the masses? Talk about adding insult to injury.

It's disturbing to read words like "compassion" in conjunction with this thread, since DCS sounds like he's just trying to get his rocks off. He said it himself: it's a "morbid fascination" and he is seeking, literally, "grit and seediness." Yep, sounds like he's just oozing with the desire to make himself a more compassionate and inspired individual.

DSC, I realize you did not use the word "compassion" or make any reference to wanting to make youself a better person in your original post. However, I hope if asked you'd take the high (or at least honest) road and admit that you belong to the same elitist club as I do and that what you really want is a special kind of gruesome entertainment that the majority of the world's population knows as reality.

I'll judge you a whole lot less if you call it what it is.

 

[L_K_P]

Last sunday after weeks of asking my only argentina friend who owns a car agreed to drive me around some dodgy areas. We ended up getting lost and she had to call her father for ideas on how to get out. When we finally got back to her house he ripped into me for putting his daughter and the new car he bought her in such danger.

It was a great day though. When I was young my family was very poor and we lived in the 'worst' area of my city, but it doesnt compare to the places we went on sunday. The most exciting part was in this scarey as hell street / dirt track, sourrounded by really bad looking people.. We went into this giant pothole filled with water in the road. The few seconds wondering if the wheels were going to come out of this crater were intense, if the car got stuck I think we would have been finished

 

[Delfina]

Please be careful... there are places that no son joda... Specially if you are an extranjero with a woman and a new car.

Sorry if it sounds patronizing, but I had to say it.

 

[syngirl]

Last sunday after weeks of asking my only argentina friend who owns a car agreed to drive me around some dodgy areas. We ended up getting lost and she had to call her father for ideas on how to get out. When we finally got back to her house he ripped into me for putting his daughter and the new car he bought her in such danger.

It was a great day though. When I was young my family was very poor and we lived in the 'worst' area of my city, but it doesnt compare to the places we went on sunday. The most exciting part was in this scarey as hell street / dirt track, sourrounded by really bad looking people.. We went into this giant pothole filled with water in the road. The few seconds wondering if the wheels were going to come out of this crater were intense, if the car got stuck I think we would have been finished

I don't blame her father at all. 3 weeks ago my husband and mother in law got guns pointed at their heads and chests by 3 guys who wanted everything they had -- including our beat up 10 year old Gol. They were in a nice area of town. They were happy to take a shitty car.

You're a very silly new arrival. If you want to do that sort of thing, go with someone who knows where they are going. Do not force your only Argentine friend to take her spanking new car into an area she doesn't know.

Silly tourists like you should be paying good money on tours through the villas. Or go on your own. Or go with your silly tourist friends. Don't force people to put their own property and potentially their lives on the line for YOUR shits and giggles.

Of course the large majority of people in the villas and the poorer areas of town are decent people. However, there are the minority that are willing to kill you for your silly iPod or whatever shiny 1st world objects you've go on you. If YOU want to go fine, but don't MAKE anyone else go with you.

You were obviously too much of a coward to go on your own -- so if you're scared to go on your own, why force a woman friend with a brand new car to go with you? You're an idiot.

 

[citygirl]

While Syngirl's post may be a bit harsh, she's right in pointing out that deliberately seeking out "danger" and putting a friend in harm's way is a poor decision.

Is an adrenaline rush really worth potentially (at best) having your friend's car stolen or (at worst) getting hurt or possibly killed? And yes, it does happen.

I can't fathom deliberately choosing to expose yourself and a friend to danger. Nor do I get the idea of "gawking" at poverty.

Want to see it real and upclose? Go and volunteer in a villa. Do something useful. Help people change their lives and escape the vicious cycle of poverty.